Electric seat dead after battery test

[DV52]

My original input with this was to see if we could wake the unit and operate in a more standalone mode (not registered with the gateway). Still, it looks like OP has the seat working minus the memory function by temporarily putting the seat back in the donor vehicle.

hmm...... without intending any offense - no it's not really operating in a "more standalone mode". By "temporarily putting the seat back in the donor vehicle", OP has re-established the correct (read "designed") operating environment for the seat module. Ain't nothing "stand alone" with this set-up and it's NOT at all surprising that the seat works when back in the donor car. The only usable finding from this test is that it proves that the seat module has not been fried. Again with no offense intended, the test says nothing about the ability of the seat to operate in the Amarok, or in a truly stand-alone environment - IMO

I have been developing a development platform based around a Teensy 4.1; this can communicate with three independent CAN buses and act like multiple LIN clients or masters.
While I am very much in the devolvement stage, having one bus on the PQ 100 kBit/s CAN (comfort \ infotainment) and CAN 2 500kBit/s connected to the seat controller, you could, in theory, create software that translates the states between the systems, aka a gateway in itself.

But.. my software and test bench are not that mature yet, and it would be an excellent experiment to write software to translate the PQ ID 1394 (Klemme) and the MQB 960 (Klemmen_Status); I can generate the counter and checksum the MQB platform needs easy, this could wake modules, but not much else, I guess you could pass 0x700-0x7FF - UDS diagnostics too to allow the VCDS tool to talk.

As @DV52 said tho, it would be very hard to track down what other signals the seat is looking for. If it's from a vehicle that had customization via the infotainment, you need to deal with it maybe needing to talk over BAP, a protocol layer on top of CAN that is even more challenging to deal with.

Respect!!! Good luck with the arduino solution! Maybe also consider using a Digispark PRO (see below) - it uses an AT-Tiny chip and it has the advantage of having an onboard 5V power supply (so very suitable for car-based projects)

My thoughts still stand. A PQ-based controller swap on the MQB seat, as per the guide posted a few pages back, would be your best option.

I understand your point entirely - but I invite OP to consider an alternative approach: the best option (meaning the most practical option) for this car might be to install a MQB seat WITHOUT the memory function (because this option contains no CAN/LIN compatibility issues when installed in an Amarok).

Again, I wish you every success - but even if you manage to fool the Amarok's CAN network into believing that the seat module is native to the car, it's almost certain that this outcome will come with compromises to the operation of the memory function as designed for a MQB vehicle.

A question that only OP can answer about the" best option": are the complications of getting the memory functions to work worth the perceived advantages of the seat memory functions (in the context of the inevitable compromises in memory functionality that will be very likely accompany the ultimate solution - if an ultimate solution is possible at all)?

But hey, I love this discussion on things that have not been done before and working out what experiments we could do, so if you have a bunch of time, happy to throw ideas around

I agree. This project is the stuff of new discoveries - very likely a perfect learning environment! And yes, lots of fun for geeky folk - like us both!! If this project proceeds, I look forward to reading your findings in a forum post (please)

[MIG]

@DV52 Sorry, I missed the picture of the Amarok network diagram, and yes, it is worth 1000 words, and you are 100% correct about the seats. The Amarok is not configured in a way I am used to seeing PQ platform cars; I mainly mess with Tiguans and Passats

With that information and the fact there was no factory standard Amarok seat with a memory option, your suggestion of the standalone MQB seat module would be the best. Any passenger seat module would meet that requirement as they don't have memory, correct?

[DV52]

..................Any passenger seat module would meet that requirement as they don't have memory, correct?

Correctamundo!!!!!

[jboogie]

Rather than make a new thread, i'm bumping this one up.

Retrofitting 2019 arteon seats into a 2013 jetta.

I do not care for the memory function, but is the seat heating element controlled through can-bus too?

If it is, power function for the seats is totally fine and the seat heating can be left out.

Any help would be appreciated.

[MIG]

Rather than make a new thread, i'm bumping this one up.

Retrofitting 2019 arteon seats into a 2013 jetta.

I do not care for the memory function, but is the seat heating element controlled through can-bus too?

If it is, power function for the seats is totally fine and the seat heating can be left out.

Any help would be appreciated.

You should be able to hook the heater circuit and temp sensor up to a seat heater module, these are very basic( no smarts), can be set to three power levels. If your old seats had heating you can pull the module off the drivers seat (the one does both sides)

[DV52]

Rather than make a new thread, i'm bumpinTheg this one up.

Retrofitting 2019 arteon seats into a 2013 jetta.

I do not care for the memory function, but is the seat heating element controlled through can-bus too?

If it is, power function for the seats is totally fine and the seat heating can be left out.

Any help would be appreciated.

@jboogie: Hi.

The short answer to your question is YES - the heated seats on a 2019 Arteon is part of the CAN network (but the same is NOT true for the 2013 Jetta)

The 2019 Arteon is built on a MQB platform and the 2013 Jetta has a PQ25/35 platform - so very different cars!

The basic set-up for seat-heating on MQB platform cars is as shown in my very cut-down wiring diagram below:



Please note that my diagram is meant as a rough wiring guide only - it is intended to show the high-level arrangement for seat-heating on MQB platform cars.

So, to explain: The central smarts for the seat-heating function is the module that the official wiring diagram calls "Onboard supply control unit". This module lives @ address 09 on the CAN network and it is more generally known as the Body Control Module (BCM), or the central electrics module. For ease of writing, I'll use "BCM" in the rest of this reply

For the purpose of seat-heating, you should think about the BCM as receiving input signals and separately providing output power based on the way that the cabin occupants select the seat-heating switches.

In more detail, seat-heating works like this: the BCM receives input variables from the Air conditioning module (this is where the seat-heating switches reside) and based on these signals, the BCM provides an output - which is power to the actual heating elements that are physically bonded to the driver/passenger seat cushions. As shown in my diagram, the BCM also manages the overall battery-rail power-supply for seat-heating which is via fuse position 26 on the C fuse block.

As you can see from my picture, the seat-heater elements are directly connected to the BCM - but the input variables are sent to the BCM from the air conditioning module as CAN based messages. Both the BCM and the air conditioning module live on the Convenience CAN bus on MQB platform cars

The wiring set-up for the Jetta is very different - it is controlled by a stand alone module, which not surprisingly is called Heated front seats control unit (J774). This module is NOT part of the CAN network.

I assume that you intend to simply plug-in the Arteon seat heating elements into the jetta's wiring loom (does the Jetta already have J774?). If so, there are a few different wiring arrangements on MQB platform cars that result in various pin-outs. I'm not sure how many pins are on the Arteon seats but you may need to re-allocate the individual heating elements on the new seats to suit the Jetta factory plug.

For completeness, my picture also shows the "Data bus diagnostic interface". This is normally called the Gateway module, or CAN Gateway module. It's included in my picture purely for reference - because of the Gateway module's central role in orchestrating all CAN messages

Don

PS: here is an example of different circuit versions of seat heating for the Golf mk7/mk7.5: