APR Tune - 162TSI - worth every $$

[Psych101]

I think there is a bit of speculation there. I would rather not assume and I'm just interested in the facts.

Also, I don't think its reasonable for VW to deny a claim on a stage 1 tune when other VAG cars with similar drivetrains are running the same or more power

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

An ECU cannot simply store peak torque or peak power, however it will definitely store max values of sensors, such as map sensor showing up last max value of say 2bar of manifold pressure instead of 1bar.

That's probably the easiest way to determine if there have been changes to the software. And of course, the whole idea of a flash counter is definitely plausible too.

[Psych101]

An ECU cannot simply store peak torque or peak power, however it will definitely store max values of sensors, such as map sensor showing up last max value of say 2bar of manifold pressure instead of 1bar.

That's probably the easiest way to determine if there have been changes to the software. And of course, the whole idea of a flash counter is definitely plausible too.

Would the ecu receive that signal if you were using the jb4 that intercepts it and sends something else?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

JB4 is essentially a signal bender, so say if you've added a bit more boost by applying a higher duty cycle to the wastegate and your MAP sensor now reads 1.2bar of boost instead of 1bar. Normally that would flag an error and the ECU would trim wastegate duty cycle OR just throw an error and cut ignition and RPM and prevent engine damage.

JB4 pretty much would receive the sensor voltage and lower it before your ECU reads it. So now running more boost the standard ECU thinks everything is fine. Generally MAP sensors (say a 3 bar absolute) would read 0.1 volts for 0 bar 4.5v for 3 bar in linear (depends on sensor scaling). Think of the JB4 as an advanced drop resistor to lower sensor voltages across different sensors.

[Ozsko]

I think there is a bit of speculation there. I would rather not assume and I'm just interested in the facts.

That's easy, stand outside a dealer one afternoon and get into a discussion with a few techs and ask them what they know and then get back to us. That is what I did though it was not deliberate, we were just having a chat and it came up in conversation.

[tigger73]

Would the ecu receive that signal if you were using the jb4 that intercepts it and sends something else?

All I'm saying is there are ways for VW to figure out that the engine has been run outside factory specs, keep a record of this and retrieve the information when it is hooked up to the dealers computer. VW techs may have some ideas how the detection works, however again these are going to be rumours and I seriously doubt that this information is going to be public knowledge.

At the end of the day you tune your car at your own risk. You need to go with a reputable tuner/workshop that has professional insurance and will back up their own product.

[Psych101]

Does anyone have independent dyno results for an apr stage 1 tune before and after on a 162 tig? I have only seen apr's dyno results

[tigger73]

Does anyone have independent dyno results for an apr stage 1 tune before and after on a 162 tig? I have only seen apr's dyno results

I've been asking the same question for some time. All we get it APR's claimed numbers and increases based on Vw brochure figure which I know is not correct (but is a more impressive number to advertise).

[Ozsko]

VW techs may have some ideas how the detection works, however again these are going to be rumours and I seriously doubt that this information is going to be public knowledge.

How do you know that they are going to be rumours and that techs do not know anything about this stuff. Is that just a guess or you have facts?

[tigger73]

How do you know that they are going to be rumours and that techs do not know anything about this stuff. Is that just a guess or you have facts?

OK if you're after facts then these are the facts.

A number of years ago (Mk6 Golf days) there were tuners/tuning box manufacturers that made claims that their tunes/tuning boxes were undetectable.

Move onto MQB platform (Mk7 Golf) and the detection software VW computers run has got a lot smarter. I do not know what algorithms/parameters VW checks so I cannot tell you. If you're after facts you would have to ask the software engineers at VW who write the software, however I'm pretty sure they won't be telling too many people.

What I can say is that all the claims by tuners/tuning box manufacturers about being "undetectable" has gone very quiet. None of them are saying anything. I believe (and this is where I'm assuming) that this is because they can no longer guarantee that their software is undetectable. If they have found a way around the factory detection software then they're not saying anything otherwise VW will probably update the detection software and the whole game of cat and mouse continues.

What is a fact is that no tuner is going to give an ironclad guarantee these days.

Well that's my opinion anyway