Accessories

[Hillbilly]

It's the drive people on the internet have to point out how wrong someone is that bugs me. IMHO your comment was redundant and unnecessary.

https://xkcd.com/386/

Shane.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Excuse me I never once said you were wrong. As I have had a fair bit to do with towing and the rules therof I merely pointed out what they were and what you can and cant modify. I was trying to help but seems you took it the wrong way.
Another poster supplied the figure you couldnt find. Not me.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

[shanelord]

Excuse me I never once said you were wrong. As I have had a fair bit to do with towing and the rules therof I merely pointed out what they were and what you can and cant modify. I was trying to help but seems you took it the wrong way.
Another poster supplied the figure you couldnt find. Not me.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

I apologise if I misinterpreted the intent behind the one line response you gave that directed me to a previous post I'd already read.

I was well aware of that post and others in the thread including your valuable info previously.

Please keep sharing valuable information and experience as that's what's important and is appreciated.

Thanks,
Shane.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Sydneykid]

Tow weight of a trailer is weighed DISCONNECTED FROM THE TUG.
What a WDH does after you hook up is irrelevant.
It is weighed like that because not everyone uses a WDH ( or needs to)
You would have your hitch done up really tight to move that % of weigh to the front wheels and I doubt it extremely.
Normally it is less than 25% and can be checked like this.
Measure height under front wheel arch thenhook up and remeasure height from ground to under front wheel arch.
Attach WDH and do it again. measure how far its dropped.
Other way to check weights is weigh the tug Hook up weigh it again Do up WDH weigh it Will still be almost the same as
previous weight because the action of the WDH applies more force to the joint and distributes some weight forward but in no way lightens it
How can it. Would need a Jack under it or a skyhook to do that
Other way is to weigh each axle before and after as above to confirm weight changes
I spoke to HR technical services and they confirmed that fact.
Also remember that the towball weight is part of the tugs payload so you cannot legally load tug to GVM and add a trailer.
After a few years of full time vanning with a heavy van and reading up on staying legal I can assure you what is written is on the button
Yes your rear axle weight will alter but it will be a lot more than 95kg even in an empty car.
Unless you mean it will increase by that amount with the WDH hooked up
Most would have a rear axle weight limit in the area of 1200-1900kg depending on the model

Thanks for the detailed response, but I will follow the same process with my Tiguan when it arrives as I did with the Stagea (and the 5 tow cars that I have had before it). Put it on my corner weight scales and loaded it up with the usual gear that I take to a race meeting. Noted down that weight on the rear wheels. The Stagea has adjustable height coil overs in it so once I established the spring preload to achieve zero rake it was a simple process to mark it on the threads so that I can duplicate it when needed for towing.

Then I followed the same process with the trailer, loaded the race car onto the trailer, filled it up with what usually goes in it (mostly fuel). Balance it, by moving the weight around in the race car and/or moving it backwards or forwards on the trailer such that the hitch ends up with around 8% to 10% of the total car and trailer weight. In the case of the current car and trailer that was around 160 kgs. Then I attached the trailer to the Stagea and loaded up the WDH until it showed +115 kgs on the scales under the rear wheels (the Stagea tow bar is limited to 120 kgs). When viewed from the side the car and trailer are in line horizontally (zero rake), so it doesn't look "overloaded". I have found over the years that with this balance/weight it tows extremely well, with no throttle off sway or excessive pitching.

For reference, in my previous post I mentioned 160/95 kgs, that was before I had the adjustable height coil overs in the Stagea and needed to load the WDH more to achieve close to zero rake.

I understand that for those with a caravan it may not be as easy to move the weight around, but I have successfully applied the same process for a number of friends with vans. Moving water tanks, filling them appropriately, moving gas bottles, even silly stuff like taking the clothes out of the cupboards at the front and putting them in suitcases under a raised bed in the rear.

Cheers
Gary

[Hillbilly]

All very well but you simply are ignoring that the ball weight is what it is no matter how many scales. WDH's or even skyhooks. are used to try to alter it.

If your cars limit is 100kg and when you weigh the ballweight BEFORE hooking up it is more than that it is in excess of the cars limit.

The total amount is still resting on the car somewhere It cant disappear.

This has been thrashed out for years on van forums and it is always the same
It is done the way I set out and shifting the deckchairs on a badly balanced ship will eventually end up in it sinking.

Those who have lightened off the nose by shifting weight to the rear have often ended up regretting it when they climb out of a ditch after the van starts tailwagging and they cant stop it.

A university study in England proved what I say about weight distribution.

Here Bailey of Bristol - Caravan Stability Studies

However you are free to do what you like.

[Sydneykid]

All very well but you simply are ignoring that the ball weight is what it is no matter how many scales. WDH's or even skyhooks. are used to try to alter it.
If your cars limit is 100kg and when you weigh the ballweight BEFORE hooking up it is more than that it is in excess of the cars limit.
The total amount is still resting on the car somewhere It cant disappear.
This has been thrashed out for years on van forums and it is always the same
It is done the way I set out and shifting the deckchairs on a badly balanced ship will eventually end up in it sinking.
Those who have lightened off the nose by shifting weight to the rear have often ended up regretting it when they climb out of a ditch after the van starts tailwagging and they cant stop it.
A university study in England proved what I say about weight distribution.
Here Bailey of Bristol - Caravan Stability Studies
However you are free to do what you like.

As a race car engineer I'm rather well aware of the effect of weight distribution and polar moment of inertia. I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, just pointing out that there are other factors that should be taken into account. The method of measuring the ball weight (before hitching), by simply placing it on a set of scales, may well be accurate but it is overly simplistic when load distribution is applied. The fact is the trailer still has 8% to 10% of it's total weight forward, but the WDH allocates that weight such that an appropriate amount is carried by the rear wheels of the tow vehicle. When I mentioned moving weight around in the race car (fuel for example) that usually means moving it from the front seat area to the rear seat area, both of which are located over the dual wheels of the trailer (ie; next to zero effect on the PMOI). In my case the fuel system in the boot prevents anything being loaded there.

Most of the race car guys I know in Europe (notably UK) run around 5% tow ball weight, particularly with mid engine race cars with their low PMOI. That's around 80 kgs, which I could achieve with my current set up, but being front engine (cast iron block, inline 6) I haven't seen the need to try it. I might give 100 kgs a go with the Tiguan, but it will still have my trusty WDH in place.

Just for clarity, I've been towing race cars for over 30 years and I haven't ended up in ditch yet. I did have a tank slapper once but that was towing a car and trailer that I didn't set up. Haven't allowed that to happen since.


Cheers
Gary

[Hillbilly]

The point I am trying to make is that if a car has a 100kg limit you shouldnt be putting say 125 Kg on it and then fiddling the weight around. The limit is the published weight measured before you hitch up. A Patrol or a Pajero have a reducing limit above 250kg which is also measured on its own.

Some people dont use a WDH so how are they supposed to fiddle an overlimit weight to suddenly "shed" the extra.

Thay cant and thats why the limit is the limit.

[Sydneykid]

The point I am trying to make is that if a car has a 100kg limit you shouldnt be putting say 125 Kg on it and then fiddling the weight around. The limit is the published weight measured before you hitch up. A Patrol or a Pajero have a reducing limit above 250kg which is also measured on its own.
Some people dont use a WDH so how are they supposed to fiddle an overlimit weight to suddenly "shed" the extra.
Thay cant and thats why the limit is the limit.

It basically comes down to the reason for the 100 kg limit, is it the tow bar strength itself, the Tiguan chassis strength around the tow bar mountings or the loading on the rear wheels? If it is the loading on the rear wheels then a WDH solves that problem. If it is either or both of the others then it doesn't. Having quickly examined the tow bar and it's installation on my local dealer's Tiguan demonstrator they look more like 200 kg capacity than 100 kg. When I get mine I will do a more detailed analysis and make the call based on that.


Cheers
Gary

[Hillbilly]

It basically comes down to the reason for the 100 kg limit, is it the tow bar strength itself, the Tiguan chassis strength around the tow bar mountings or the loading on the rear wheels? If it is the loading on the rear wheels then a WDH solves that problem. If it is either or both of the others then it doesn't. Having quickly examined the tow bar and it's installation on my local dealer's Tiguan demonstrator they look more like 200 kg capacity than 100 kg. When I get mine I will do a more detailed analysis and make the call based on that.


Cheers
Gary

Im sure the good people at VW and all other makes have taken lots of engineering decisions into account when setting the limits. However there is always someone who knows better and can interpret the rules to suit themselves.

As I explained putting a towbar with a higher limit does not over ride the limit set by the manufacturer.
A case in point was the pre 1996 Landcruiser. Had a tow limit of 2500kg ,yet a towbar of 3500kg limit was able to be fitted. Didnt lift the limit and Toyota refused point blank to do so, listing engineering limits as the reason. The next year they made modifications to brakes etc and lifted the limit to 3500kg
Hooking 140 K on and spreading the load does not make the weight less in any shape or form.

The limit is 100kg weighed off the vehicle. Plain and simple.

[REXman]

So when is someone reviewing the 162TSI.. I can't keep checking everyday for what is no new info..!

[Delewin]

Hi REXman,

You and a long list including me are asking the same question.

I have a feeling we might start seeing 162TSI reviews in middle to late December this year (at the earliest) or even in January when the official launch takes place.