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Remembering that the allowable towball weight is set by the vehicle manufacturer NOT the towbar maker.Quote:
Originally Posted by shanelord
Also no gain from putting a (say) 3000kg towbar on a vehicle rated at 2000kg.
The ADR rules state quite clearly that the towing limits of a vehicle may tow either to the rating of the vehicle or the towbar WHICHEVER IS THE LESSER.
Towball mass is set by the vehicle maker
Yeah I've since discovered this. I'm in discussions with VW Corporate via my dealer at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly
I'm awaiting a statement from VW as I've challenged them to prove how they can in good conscience advertise a towing capacity like this where no 2500kg caravan in Australia is supplied with anything less than 6% ball weight.
This is borderline misrepresentation/false advertising.
Will let you know what they come back with.
Regards,
Shane.
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Well looking at it logically it is after all a euro built car and the number they sell here is a drop in the ocean in the scheme of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by shanelord
Caravans in Aus are built out of step to the rest of the world and traditionally have been towed by 4x4 vehicles often with a weight exceeding the vans weight. Actually that is the ideal situation.
Euro vans are built to different specs and generally are much lighter and by careful weight distribution achieve a lighter ball weight.
They also incorporate ESC controllers to help braking and sway. This is gradually being introduced here but not as a rule of thumb in most makes..
Therefore VW and others build for their mass market , which is only to be expected and if you want to tow an Aussie van buy something suitable. I have read the even Amaroks have given trouble towing, with dual mass flywheel problems and people towing in too high a gear and breaking things. Nissan X Trails had big problems with the factory towbar literally ripping out of the bodywork.
Other makes also have foibles and it pays to do your homework BEFORE buying something you THINK may be suitable and then finding out its not.
I know because it happened to me I bought a Patrol 3L auto and then found the van I bought was too heavy for it. Cost me another $23,000 to trade up to a Landcruiser. Nothing like weight, cubic inches of diesel and 145 L fuel tanks for towing my 25ft 3000kg van.
Can your vehicle actually tow 2500kg as GCVM and axle weight limits have to be taken into account.
That is the max allowable loaded GVM of the tug (including ballweight) and the rated GTM (or weight on the wheels only) of the van.
To be precise at any one time it is the actual loaded weight of both which may not exceed the plated GVM and GTM and GCVM
There is a lot more to it than just buying something and hooking up and going.
Personally after driving a Tiguan loaner a couple of years ago I thought it was gutless in comparison to my Passat and too small and light to be towing a decent size van.
Perhaps you should look at some of the Caravan forums. Has been some discussion on them on there about how they go or in some cases dont.
The "European" towbar isn't certified in Australia (ADR 62).
I use a Hayman Reese load distribution hitch to tow ~1700 kgs (race car and trailer). The tow ball weight (without hitch) is 160 kgs but the rear axle load is measured at 95 kgs as the hitch "moves" 65 kgs of load to the front wheels.
Cheers
Gary
While I agree partially with this, Australia, like NZ, follow the USA methodology of 6-15% as ball weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly
If you are advertising a car in Australia, misrepresentation or false advertising is when a reasonable person based on available information would be misled.
In this case VW Sales staff, VW brochures and VW website advertise 2500KG towing and don't detail the 100KG ball weight.
The reasonable assumption IMHO for most people would be then that the manufacturer would advertise to suit the local environment, and 2500KG would be realistic based on the towable caravans or trailers in the local market.
We can agree to disagree on this; but until I found this detail on these forums, I was misled.
Regards,
Shane.
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The ball weight is available, you should only have to ask or read the manual. I thought it well known that Euro cars almost all have a very light ballweight limit. Every vehicle has a limit on this, including heavy 4x4. Eg a Pajero can tow 3000kg but above 2500kg has a reducing scale of ballweight as does a Patrol.Quote:
Originally Posted by shanelord
Solution is buy a Bayley or a Jurgens or a York van and that will go a long way to solving the problem.
Unfortunately "assuming" something rarely turns out good as I also found out. After that I did due diligence regarding weights of both parts of the rig.
Failing to tell you the answer to an unasked question is hardly misrepresentation.
In the brochure for my Passat it has a section regarding weights including the ball weight so it is available before you buy.
It's not in the brochure or on the website for the Tiguan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly
It's also not common knowledge (The VW Dealership owner is in agreement with me on this - he's working to clarify with VW Corporate).
Regards,
Shane.
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Strange how they publish some and not others. However if buying with the intention to tow a van it is advisable to ask that question, as you have found out it can be a disappointment when you get the answer too late.Quote:
Originally Posted by shanelord
To me a decent salesman should know the answer or give you a manual to have a look Im sure it would be in there.
Is almost impossible to get it uprated as well without major modifications. Even the big Cruisers that have had their GVM up graded by several hundred KG dont get the towing capacity or towball weight increased and in some cases have had capacity reduced due to their published Combined gross vehicle mass limit
Hi Shane,
In the detailed Tiguan specification file (page 11) the towbar load limit is listed with 100 kg.
Isn't that what the figure you said doesn't get published? The file is available on their website.
Lupo