Towing a Camper Trailer

[Hillbilly]

That’s the law in Australia. Been that way for about 20 or more years. Maximum towball download, maximum braked, and maximum UNbraked mass (max 750kg - many vehicles are less) are all set by the manufacturer of the vehicle. Any towbar manufacturer can specify maximums UP TO AND INCLUDING those maximums, but not greater.

You are factually incorrect. A classic example was in 1996 when Toyota intoduced a higher limit for the vehicle and a new bar with a capacity of 3500kg It also fitted the 1995 model which only had a 2500kg tow limit.

They refused to up that limit forever

A towbar manufacturer can make a towbar that exceeds a vehicles capacity and you can fit it BUT the ADR RULES say this



The towing limits of a vehicle are

" The limit set by the manufacturer of the vehicle or the Towbar maker WHICHEVER IS THE LESSER"

So Vehicle limit 1500kg towbar 1800kg Limit is 1500kg

Vehicle limit 1500kg Towbar 1200kg Limit is 1200kg

The MAXIMUM BALL weight is the limit set by the manufacturer

Vehicle limit 90kg Towbar 150kg Limit is 90 Kg

That is the law

Euro vans are built differently and so get a lower ball weight. They are also built lighter using different materials tobe able to do this.


Also a vehicle may tow a van with a higher ATM than its legal limit provided that at the time of towing the van does NOT EXCEED the vehicles towing limit.. That is not fully loaded.

Have had a fair bit of towing experience with a 25ft 3000kg van on and 18 month trip around the country

[Rocket36]

In terms of towing dynamics and safety, the safest is for the hitching point to be over the rear wheels. This was figured out very early on with trucks and has become the standard. Also 5th wheel towing.

In terms of weight distribution and yawing, having caravan weight focused over the axle(s) of the caravan is the safest. Of course there has to be some weight on the tow ball, but this should be minimal. I think it must just be a case of Australia being behind the 8 ball yet again.

Caravan Stability Demonstration

[Hillbilly]

In terms of towing dynamics and safety, the safest is for the hitching point to be over the rear wheels. This was figured out very early on with trucks and has become the standard. Also 5th wheel towing.

In terms of weight distribution and yawing, having caravan weight focused over the axle(s) of the caravan is the safest. Of course there has to be some weight on the tow ball, but this should be minimal. I think it must just be a case of Australia being behind the 8 ball yet again.

Caravan Stability Demonstration

You didnt read my post did you as I linked to that video previously A 10% minimum is suggested as safe for an Aussie van

My loaded weight was 2965 and ball weight was 310 with a WDH and it travelled lovely. Without the WDH it was a pig and unsafe

[Rocket36]

I'd use a WDH regardless of the van type. It just makes everything ride a whole lot better. (and therefore safer)

OK, who arbitrarily says it must be 10%? Because a percentage is exponential! Which is ridiculous. A 5,000kg trailer (towed by a RAM 3500 for example) doesn't need 500kg worth of downward pressure on the ball to be "safe".

[Hillbilly]

I'd use a WDH regardless of the van type. It just makes everything ride a whole lot better. (and therefore safer)

OK, who arbitrarily says it must be 10%? Because a percentage is exponential! Which is ridiculous. A 5,000kg trailer (towed by a RAM 3500 for example) doesn't need 500kg worth of downward pressure on the ball to be "safe".

Well all I can say is that I have had experience and you havent it seems so i will leave it at that as you seem to know it all. You wont need a WDH with a1400kg van anyway and you would rip the arse out of a Passat using one

[Rocket36]

Well all I can say is that I have had experience and you havent it seems so i will leave it at that as you seem to know it all. You wont need a WDH with a1400kg van anyway and you would rip the arse out of a Passat using one

LOL! Explain how I would "rip the arse out of a Passat" using a WDH? Using a WDH improves the towing abilities of cars. Hell my old man used to tow his 20" trailer sailer behind his FWD Verada sedan back in the day and without a WDH he would have had NO TRACTION.

I don't claim to know it all, but I do claim to have some common sense.

[Hillbilly]

LOL! Explain how I would "rip the arse out of a Passat" using a WDH? Using a WDH improves the towing abilities of cars. Hell my old man used to tow his 20" trailer sailer behind his FWD Verada sedan back in the day and without a WDH he would have had NO TRACTION.

I don't claim to know it all, but I do claim to have some common sense.

Because a WDH correctly applied puts additional stress on the towbar and mountings and Im sure a Passat is not designed to take the stress of a van going through a spoon drain or similar..

Read up about Nisan Xtrails that had the problem and it literally ripped the towbars out of the chassis. Get on the Caravanners Forum and ask them. All the experts are on there and discuss/argue about this very question which gets asked at least twice a week.

Dont go there any more as its groundhog day every day

[Jondalar]

The RVMA has a long history of saying you need a 10% ball weight, but this is unproven and most Euro vans only have 5% or less. The video you shared actually proved that centralised mass is what's needed for stability, not ball weight...

Hmm you obviously arent up to speed with towing dynamics are you If you have no weight on the ball the van is subject to sway and yaw and that very fact got three people killed a few years ago

Read this and learn Jong Coronial Report.rtf - Google Drive

and this perfectly tells you why your theory is wrong


Watch this video and you may understand

YouTube


What SHOULD be and what needs to be are two different things

[doc_777]

Um that's because it is! Are you saying that's not how it is in Australia? I mean it's fairly basic engineering to get a trailer to be evenly balanced when it's horizontal to the ground (single or double axle) to the point where you shouldn't need to put the jockey wheel down on double axles. Then when you hitch it up, you make the necessary adjustments to the hitch setup to two horizontally. The tow car should be pulling, not holding one end off the ground.

no, that’s not what i’m saying - what I inferred is that athe euros believe it, and have followed through with action.

However if aus van manufacturers believed it, you wouldn’t see so many front kitchens, rear en-suite etc. you don’t see many euro vans wth towing stability issues, but you see plenty of aus manufactured vans with sway problems - despite the so-called ‘10% rule’ which some people preach.

i’ve got a few towing runs on the board...

[doc_777]

You are factually incorrect. A classic example was in 1996 when Toyota intoduced a higher limit for the vehicle and a new bar with a capacity of 3500kg It also fitted the 1995 model which only had a 2500kg tow limit.

They refused to up that limit forever

A towbar manufacturer can make a towbar that exceeds a vehicles capacity and you can fit it BUT the ADR RULES say this



The towing limits of a vehicle are

" The limit set by the manufacturer of the vehicle or the Towbar maker WHICHEVER IS THE LESSER"

So Vehicle limit 1500kg towbar 1800kg Limit is 1500kg

Vehicle limit 1500kg Towbar 1200kg Limit is 1200kg

The MAXIMUM BALL weight is the limit set by the manufacturer

Vehicle limit 90kg Towbar 150kg Limit is 90 Kg

That is the law

Euro vans are built differently and so get a lower ball weight. They are also built lighter using different materials tobe able to do this.


Also a vehicle may tow a van with a higher ATM than its legal limit provided that at the time of towing the van does NOT EXCEED the vehicles towing limit.. That is not fully loaded.

Have had a fair bit of towing experience with a 25ft 3000kg van on and 18 month trip around the country

not sure how you can say I’m factually wrong, when what you wrote supports exactly what I said LOL. You seemed to pickup on me not saying that you can’t TOW more than specified by the vehicle manufacturer, but ignored the rest. Are you secretly a member of the caravaners forum?

one van one one trip. How sweet. Two boat shops in my family, that’s where I did my trade. Been towing since 17 - and until 30 (that’s 29 years ago) towed pretty much every day of my working life. Since moving on, i’ve owned 2 boats, 1 camper, 3 caravans. Last one was a 3500kg bestie behind a Y62 Patrol. So you’re not the only person here who knows about towing.