water / meth

[JustMark]

Hey Preen

If you do set one up can u take a picture of your switch that u use. I set one up on a 300td merc with a washer bottle that seemed very effective but is now leaking badly if I fill it up. I'm not sure of the meths ate away at the rubber and silicone.

I'd love to know what type of switch u will use and where you put it. Keep us in the loop.

Cory.

Those prices seem around right. I think the last 200lts I got delivered In Melbs was around that much. For you guys who don't want to by a bulk batch ask a bio deiseler if they will sell you some for your tests etc before u bite the bullet and by a large batch.


Meths need to be stored properly for longevity. Off the ground in a cool dry place in an air tight container.

If I can find some time to fix my leak or get a new bottle I will give u some before and after 100km times for the 300td. . But from ozbenz there as a guy that claimed -2 second off a 0 -100 km time. But then again he clocked his first one at 18.9 seconds to 100 from memory.


Thanks

Mark n

[ian]

I installed a Methylated spirits and water injection system on a HQ one ton cab chassis back in 1975 and i worked very well and kept the valves and plug like new ,so its not a new invention been around for years. And very simple to install .

[dave_r]

Have seen some evo's get good results with the water/meth injection. But you'll need to use a tuner on our cars that is capable of customising a tune. Counts out at least one here....you gonna switch teams Corey?

Apart from using methanol in RC cars during my teenage years, I haven't got any further experience on this other than what I've learnt from reading.

Yeah but the RC car stuff had 5-15% Nitro Methane in it? Farken stinks though, wouldn't want that near my car!

[Corey_R]

Yes, I'm sure it does cut out quite a few of the tuners here.

But there is no need for me to switch, because I'm already with a company who has several suitable tunes and have had cars running WMI for years in the USA
Even a few of their employees have done it on their personal Golf's. I'd only have to do what every else would need to do with their R, get a 104 octane flash put on etc, since R owners (and new S3 owners etc) can't have multiple maps selected via our cruise control stalk


Yeah, most RC fuel comes premixed with caster oil and Nitro. However, they used to stock non-pre-mixed stuff, as the guys who used to race in the .21 class cars etc would often use more specialty oils and 30% (or more) nitro.

[Preen59]

Yeah but the RC car stuff had 5-15% Nitro Methane in it? Farken stinks though, wouldn't want that near my car!

We run 90%+ in the Dragster.. Smells GREAT! haha.

[Preen59]

Hey Preen

If you do set one up can u take a picture of your switch that u use. I set one up on a 300td merc with a washer bottle that seemed very effective but is now leaking badly if I fill it up. I'm not sure of the meths ate away at the rubber and silicone.

I'd love to know what type of switch u will use and where you put it. Keep us in the loop.

Cory.

Those prices seem around right. I think the last 200lts I got delivered In Melbs was around that much. For you guys who don't want to by a bulk batch ask a bio deiseler if they will sell you some for your tests etc before u bite the bullet and by a large batch.


Meths need to be stored properly for longevity. Off the ground in a cool dry place in an air tight container.

If I can find some time to fix my leak or get a new bottle I will give u some before and after 100km times for the 300td. . But from ozbenz there as a guy that claimed -2 second off a 0 -100 km time. But then again he clocked his first one at 18.9 seconds to 100 from memory.


Thanks

Mark n

I'd love to have a look at your setup mate. Post some pics! (Please!)

Use Viton o-rings and seals if you can. Methanol dries normal rubber orings out. Nitro eats them away..

My general rule is the more it stings in a cut, the harder on seals it is. Haha.

We buy our methanol 200L at a time.. So I couldn't tell you what the price is @ 20L..

[gmx]

I've done a lot of reading on this subject too. Mostly from USA forums.

As well as Devil's Own, which you've linked, the other popular kits are from Snow Performance. They have kits specifically tailored for the VW 2.0 Turbo for example.

The guys are injecting the WM, typically in a ratio of 50/50 into the pipe between the intercooler (cold side) and throttle body. The already charged air combines with the WM injector to "atomize" the WM and evenly disperse it. It then helps to clean the intake area, and then mixes in the cylinder with the fuel and helps to increase the octane and at the same time lower combustion temps.

The consensus is that whilst it can be used with any tune, the REAL benefits come when using a more aggressive tune with more aggressive ignition/timing. So (in Australian terms), using 98 octane fuel with WMI whilst using a 104 octane ECU tune.

Several of the kits they've been using in the USA have a separate control unit which sits in or around the dash and allows you to turn the WMI on or off, adjust the flow rates etc. There are different methods for controlling when/how much WMI is used - from the turbo boost or from the accelerator position (I'm a bit foggy on this part of the topic, since it's been a few months).


As for what happens when it's not available. A few of the guys running it in the USA with this situation (104 octane maps on 98 octane fuel - in their language 100 on 93) have reported that they've forgottten to turn on the system and have driven around "normally" for miles and not had any issues. They point out that there is usually enough adaptability on the VW ECU mappings that as long as you aren't going WOT without the WMI running, you will be ok.

Snow has additional safety options available like boost controller bypass relays etc too.


I haven't looked yet where to get large quantities of methanol here, though I'm told than any "racing shop" should be able to get it. Maybe even hobby shops that sell "gas" powered RC cars/planes etc, as they also run on methanol (and other additives). In a bind, you can even use some windscreen washer fluid as many of them are largely methanol... though I'm not sure I like the sound of that suggestion.

As for going stale.... the guys in the USA buy in bulk and mix into a 10 gallon container which they store in a cool dry place. I haven't read anyone being worried about it going off whilst being stored. Though the stuff is very toxic, so you need to use gloves whilst handling it etc as it will irritate your skin.

When I've bought this topic up with an independent mechanic he said that he personally hates working on cars who've had this done because it stinks up the engine bay and makes working on the cars a hassle as the vapors can sting your eyes etc. He says that you can tell as soon as they drive into the workshop if they've got WMI! :/

Anyway - that's what I've learnt on the topic. Apart from using methanol in RC cars during my teenage years, I haven't got any further experience on this other than what I've learnt from reading.

I hope DeanCorp comes in and adds more information from his first-hand experience.

Oh, and Greg Roles also has some experience on this topic in the TDI space.

Most of what you said depends on where, the ratio and how much you choose to inject.
That would dictate if you are going for "octane boost" or IAT cooling or a even a direct combination (ie 4 nozzles in the runners and 1 at the cold pipe/IC exit).
Just because people are using 100PON files with it does not mean it's equal to that octane.
There are different variables involved in knock resistance, one of them is low IATs.
A higher octane file is usually just more aggressive ignition timing.

Let's say you inject after the TB throttle plate or even individually into the manifold runners. You will need to get tuned for it because you are richening up the mixture quite a bit especially if you plan on making any substantial power.
The closer you inject to the TB, the more you will need to keep an eye on your fuel trims (mostly at WOT). Large adaption values are never optimal.

FWIW, Snow & DO are pretty poor quality basic kits. I don't know if they stepped up their game and stopped using the crappy fittings they used to. But for me, Labonte is the go-to kit at the moment.

[Greg Roles]

Hmmmm, interesting I had not heard of them. Thanks for the info.

For what it is worth, my snow pump, solenoid and tank are identical to the Labonte units, and the nozzle and hose adaptor from Labonte are exactly the same as the Devils Own ones. The Snow jets weren't overly inspiring in comparison. Seems the "basic" kits have stepped up from your past experience.

[dave_r]

I'd only have to do what every else would need to do with their R, get a 104 octane flash put on

Yeah um that isn't the same. I wouldn't be doing it unless you can have the tune mapped to suit local fuel and the WMI in unison. No need to repeat what gmx mentioned.

We run 90%+ in the Dragster.. Smells GREAT! haha.

LOL yes it does but I wouldn't want to live with it in my daily!

[Corey_R]

Well, I'm sure the custom tune vs off the shelf tune comments are obvious even when you're not talking about WMI - the advantages and disadvantages of both have already been discussed elsewhere ad nauseum. But there are also local people running on tunes from the major companies... DeanCorp for example.

Speaking of which, I'm going to PM him and ask him to contribute to this thread since he has already been running this locally on a TFSI K04 engine and could really take much of the "guess work" out of this for people with Golf R's etc.