Water Injection Setup for Golf R. No more BS please

[Tarmac]

You can't change the title once a reply has been submitted, you have to get a moderator to do it

Thanks Clay. I didnt know that.

[Swainey32]

Excellent to see people stepping out of the boundaries of whats readily available and doing trial and error on their own vehicles.

If we never did trial and error, the world would not move forward, and hence why we have had situations of blown engines, somebody made a mistake, they certainly wont do that again.

I know John from Tigersoft has been running water/meth for a decent amount of time now, and his M3 loves it, protection against detonation is something every tuner should look into. And those just after lower intake temperatures with lowest risk, whats safer than water in a controlled input?

I say, well done Tarmac, would like to see this on a few more cars.

[Tarmac]

Excellent to see people stepping out of the boundaries of whats readily available and doing trial and error on their own vehicles.

If we never did trial and error, the world would not move forward, and hence why we have had situations of blown engines, somebody made a mistake, they certainly wont do that again.

I know John from Tigersoft has been running water/meth for a decent amount of time now, and his M3 loves it, protection against detonation is something every tuner should look into. And those just after lower intake temperatures with lowest risk, whats safer than water in a controlled input?

I say, well done Tarmac, would like to see this on a few more cars.

Thanks mate, very well put. As you said, this is nothing new and its been around for ages. I guess people just dont know enough about it or didnt want to know. Not sure.

Everything i have done has had a lot of thought put into it before its even been started, that said, there is always some trial and error to be had. Id prefer to have it 70% right from the start over putting little thought into it and having it 30% right instead.

Next week i will be able to share some more hard data for everyone to see.

Cheers

[parso_rex]

You could pretty easily set up a failsafe by having a secondary solenoid send manifold pressure direct to the actuator port thereby capping boost at actuator spring pressure. The solenoid triggered by a level sensor in the tank

I can totally see the use of a water injection kit solely as a safeguard for a car with heavy track use as it can really aid in reducing knock should some situation bring this on. It also safeguards against poor fuel quality and we certainly have that here in Aus where 98 Ron is not 98 Ron.

[h100vw]

Aquamist have a flow detector and can cut the boost by wiring the N75 through the controller. Not sure how quick the intervention needs to be to prevent an explosion. Not a worry on straight water though.

Gavin

[Mysticality]

...Diesels don't have ANY concerns as per Petrol, as they are basically always "pinging" and running lean. When you advance timing in a petrol car with a water / meth setup, you run the risk of preignition should the tank run dry. If you can't account for that with some sort of failsafe, then you do indeed deserve to destroy your engine. Similarily if you have zero chemistry knowledge, or simple intelligence at all for that matter, you should not be messing around with flammable liquids in the first place. It's a Darwinian thing.

In a diesel methanol acts as extra fuel, and there have been runs by Snow in the USA of a 50/50 mix adding approx 30hp and 50nm to a 2.0 Jetta TDI. Certainly feels like that on my car. Going beyond 50/50 does liberate a bit more power, but not as much as you would think, law of diminishing returns. Also becomes flamable...

So its basically the same as diesel/LPG, then?
I.E. When the bottles empty you're back to 60% efficiency instead of 80-90?

Sorry for being cautious!


EDIT: I'm only comparing LPG to WI in regards to the ability of the engine to operate in the absense of the aftermarket system. I am in no way claiming that they do the same thing.

[Greg Roles]

Yep, in the oilers you simply lose the added effect when it runs out. Exactly the same as LPG, and NOS for that matter : )

[noone]

I'm a little confused by some of the ideas in this thread. Huge number of WM conversations on Vortex, never had the patience.

So, if water injection is so positive for turbo vehicles, why does high humidity seem to reduce power (pants dyno)? If it helps add power, have any manufacturers made a vehicle with this?

Love the box in the boot, very slick. Is the pump there as well? Can you hear it?

I'm a little confused by the different methods of how you would trigger, if you release a product, will you look to offer systems that read from the ECU / Obd port / temp sensor / existing sensor?

WM does not interest me, but a v1 tune on polo / golf produces a lot of heat, I like the idea of having more timing at the cost of a top-up of water. The boot option is tidy, I could build by sub-box over it to make it double-stealthy.

Seems very odd to say you can't add an additive to the intake, perhaps the nozzle could be situated outside of the intake, which just happens to be right in front of it (then you'd loose some to the air filter).

Love to see a blue slip on your setup, would add a lot of confidence to the streetability of the mod.

Is there a option to have the nozzle post turbo? Seems like closer to the intake manifold would offer slightly quicker cooling.

[Tarmac]

I'm a little confused by some of the ideas in this thread. Huge number of WM conversations on Vortex, never had the patience.

So, if water injection is so positive for turbo vehicles, why does high humidity seem to reduce power (pants dyno)? If it helps add power, have any manufacturers made a vehicle with this?

Love the box in the boot, very slick. Is the pump there as well? Can you hear it?

I'm a little confused by the different methods of how you would trigger, if you release a product, will you look to offer systems that read from the ECU / Obd port / temp sensor / existing sensor?

WM does not interest me, but a v1 tune on polo / golf produces a lot of heat, I like the idea of having more timing at the cost of a top-up of water. The boot option is tidy, I could build by sub-box over it to make it double-stealthy.

Seems very odd to say you can't add an additive to the intake, perhaps the nozzle could be situated outside of the intake, which just happens to be right in front of it (then you'd loose some to the air filter).

Love to see a blue slip on your setup, would add a lot of confidence to the streetability of the mod.

Is there a option to have the nozzle post turbo? Seems like closer to the intake manifold would offer slightly quicker cooling.

I think the humidity problems is an air density thing and its also still quite a warm air. Manufacturers dont do it because what soccer mum is going to remember to put fuel AND water in there car. haha

Most systems can be set up to run off MAF readings. So once the MAF reads a certain flow which will equate to a certain boost and or load it can start to spray water. You can also hook it in to do it from injector duty cycle. Smart people can add maps to the ECU programming and then wire a controller in to the ECU for AUX ports. However i honestly think the best and most simplest way for our cars is boost based. The controller is plugged into a boost source and you set it when you want it to come on, it comes on at a low duty cycle and then ramps up to full flow as boost rises.

Useless having a nozzle post turbo because it has no effect by the time it reaches the engine, the intercooler also being hot soaks up any effect. You can have 1 there but you need at least 1 or 2 more after the intercooler for it to work, becomes very messy. You can have a nozzle pre turbo which is similar, but if you get droplets on the turbo compressor wheel you can damage it and then your turbo.

My pump is attached to the tank. The tank has inserts in it for bolts. Rubber mounts to stop any vibration. I cant hear the pump at all in the car when its on. The bracket uses the OEM anchor mount points so there is no ugly drilling or modification and it can all be returned to stock. I actually thought about it, hehe. I can also get the boot cover out and the spare wheel out. Winning.

Help?

[Tarmac]

You could pretty easily set up a failsafe by having a secondary solenoid send manifold pressure direct to the actuator port thereby capping boost at actuator spring pressure. The solenoid triggered by a level sensor in the tank

I can totally see the use of a water injection kit solely as a safeguard for a car with heavy track use as it can really aid in reducing knock should some situation bring this on. It also safeguards against poor fuel quality and we certainly have that here in Aus where 98 Ron is not 98 Ron.

Dooable, needed? Probably not with my setup. Maybe with a lot of Meth. Agree about the fuel, lucky us. haha