The throttle input prediction capability would be possible if you attached a holographic power balance band to the pedal.Originally Posted by prise
Volkswagen Fan
Without inventing time travel (it would have to send the output before it receives the input) nothing you put between the pedal and ECU can make the butterfly move in real time, all it can do is magnify pedal movements and pass them on which would make the car feel more responsive but not achieve anything you couldnt achieve with a faster and more aggressive right foot.
A number of manufacturers now change pedal to torque mapping along with things like damper settings when 'sport mode' is selected - I think subaru did this with their liberty gt and afaik BMW have offered selectable throttle pedal sensitivity before. It would be nice to be able to customise the mapping from pedal position to demanded torque as it really is a personal preference thing.
A VCDS log of pedal position with the engine off and ignition on would be sufficient to get an idea on what they are doing with the pedal position.
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The throttle input prediction capability would be possible if you attached a holographic power balance band to the pedal.
79 MK1 Golf Wreck to Race / 79 MK1 Golf The Red Thread / 76 MK1 Golf Kamei Race Car
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79 B1 Passat Dasher Project
12 Amarok
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The problem is no matter how fast you move your foot, you will still not be able to remove the pedal delay.
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But it's NOT faster. More responsive to your initial foot movement yes, but not faster. What you are saying is going against everything that the manufacturer is saying. I've no problem with the comments that Fab or Triode or Dave have said. But your claims are going beyond what the product even has access to do, let alone is capable of doing...
Remember that the Golf and the DSG "adapts" to how you're driving. If you're pottering around then it will act lazy. But if you "stab the pedal" constantly, then it will act spiritedly. If anything, I believe that you're being mislead by the fact that the car is in "spirited mode" constantly now because the SB has taken away the lower thresholds of the pedal movement (as advertised) so that the car no longer uses the "lazy adaption".
Yeah.... makes me want to dismantle a Golf accelerator to see what components are actually in it....
IF there is an electronic delay, and IF the Sprint Booster is actually able to remove it, then the delay would have to be in the pedal itself as the SB wouldn't be highly unlikely to be able to "rewrite" the logic of the ECU. But then, to remove an electronic delay from within the pedal it would need to be installed BEFORE the component which adds this delay - which it isn't. It's simply a case of unplugging the wires from behind the pedal, plugging in the SB, then plugging in the wires.
All of this simply backs up what the SB How It Works Page states. As I said before, notice how the "How It Works" page doesn't mention ANYTHING about a "delay"?
ALL the Sprint Booster is doing, is changing the pedal travel. THAT'S IT
Again, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with what the product is designed for. I'd love it if pressing putting the car into "Sport mode" on the ACC also enabled the pedal mapping that the SB does. But lets not be making claims that not even Sprint Booster make about their product!
Last edited by Corey_R; 21-01-2011 at 10:46 PM. Reason: Merged Posts, and clarified.
Volkswagenist
it's pure placebo.
want a good read on just how awesome this d7ck-smith-resistor-in-a-box is? here's the sprint booster white paper
a snippet:
The Sprint Booster amplifies or increases the amplitude of the accelerator pedal signal. It directly affects only this one parameter, signal amplitude. It, in and of itself, doesn't really do anything faster. The speed at which things get done depends upon how fast the driver presses the accelerator pedal. So, we must know how fast the pedal is moving to see if things are happening faster.
Let's consider what happens when we depress the accelerator pedal. We are moving the pedal over a unit of time. In my case, if I stomped on the pedal, I could get it to the floor in about 0.2 second. The accelerator pedal signal increases with travel. It will increase to maximum value in 0.2 second in this case. With the Sprint Booster in circuit, maximum value is reached at 2/3 travel. Converting to time, that would be 2/3 x 0.2 or about 0.13 seconds. So, we shaved off 0.07 in the time it takes to go to maximum value when flooring it.
Last edited by Buller_Scott; 21-01-2011 at 10:42 PM.
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Hehehe yep! And then, when you take your foot off the accelerator, the Sprint Booster actually adds more delay, because the last third of the pedal is "deadzone".
Thanks for posting that link Buller_Scott. I just finished reading it.
The whitepaper confirms what my understanding was, and it also confirms what Sprint Booster themselves say the device does on their "How It Works" page. The whitepaper also covers the topic of "adaptive ECUs". Whilst it's specific to Mercedes, the topic comfirms that my suggested explanation to Ryan_R's claims is probably in fact exactly what is happening. But with the Golf, not only do we have two or more "characteristic curves" for the ECU, but we've also got multiple characteristic mappings for the DSG too! Combine those together and we've got one complex little beast in the Golf!
Volkswagenist
no probs
of all the crap talking (me, mostly) and reading, and discussion and technical info i've read during my time here, the thread (polo 9n3, ages ago) that mentioned that paper sticks out like a sore thumb in my mind.
not to rain on anyone's parade, but for those who were considering it, there might just be 2 sides to the sprintbooster coin.
Volkswagen Fan
Yes! Personally, if anything I'd actually prefer the opposite of what the Sprint Booster claims to do - making it easier to drive my Golf smoothly and sedately. Call me an unfinessed pedal-masher from the West coast, but I found it took a while to adjust to driving normally with what felt like an "on-off" accelerator pedal. And that's certainly not a case of getting used to the power or torque in the 118TSI either, because even after an APR tune, the Golf has less power, less torque and about the same weight compared to my previous car.
Golf 118 TSI DSG, white with sports pack.
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Lets take two Rs (identical in options), except that one has SB installed and the other w/o. If we lined them up for a race down the straight. The one with SB would have the edge because it would have a headstart due to not having the in built delay when it's driver stomped on it. It isn't faster due to having more power over the non-SB car but it is faster due to the fact that it reacted faster to it's driver's throttle input.
In both my Golfs, this pedal delay is noticeable (to me) esp when trying to merge into traffic when in low revs. Stomping on the pedal doesn't help because there is still a fraction of a second delay before the car reacts. So anything to take away this delay would be a welcomed (to me).
The ETC delay is reminds me of my first $300 digital compact camera (2 Megapixel) - the delay upon pressing the shutter button was about 1/4 a second. This was long enough to make it useless for shots that involved moving subjects. And for static shots, I had to make sure I held the camera still for that 1/4 second while it rendered the image off it's sensor, snapping off a quick one would cause blurred shots due to camera shake. It was totally useless/impractical for the job it was meant to do - take candid shots.
Last edited by triode12; 22-01-2011 at 06:50 AM.
Volkswagenist
i think you may be over-dramatising the situation a little bit.
to liken a non-SB golf R to an old digi camera is cool, and its an effective analogy, but if the delay in throttle pick up in an R WERE indeed quarter of a second, the SB is still only shaving 1/4 of that 1/4 of a second, or something like that, using the white paper's examples.
i mean, with DSG equipped cars, we're not even talking about fractions of a second here. we're talking HUNDREDTHS of a second, formula one style. unless the ''lag'' in dsg's is as little as hundredths of a second also, then no.... sorry, but the SB is NOT eliminating, or even going very far into reducing, lag (in reality, that is- the placebo effect will no doubt override this, though).
i'm not trying to stir things up- this topic was covered extensively in the polo forums by a guy called celestine, who had done a crap load to his 1.6L polo, was at the ceiling of mods, and looking for more.
ultimately, it's your money and your call, but to get a stage two golf R monster, whose 0-100 times are starting to etch into supercar territory, and say that the SB gives you an advantage...........
in fact, that would be the ultimate test- do another run, Fab_R. all this speculation and talk of ''lag elimination'' is great, but what's the difference, real world?
i mean, look at the thing:
i doubt, if you open one up, that you'd find a microprocessor in there. it'd be 30c resistors (harsh, but that's how many in-line units work on these cars).
it'd be interesting to see Fab's new 0-100 times with the SB in. might work out to be 4.30 instead of 4.37, lol.
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