Golf R - APR Stage II+

[VW Central]

Yeah, you're right, too many bloody factors involved!

AT of 12 would help a treat... FMIC or not!

Yep, I don't know how much of a difference it actually makes.

[BezzyR]

One thing I will say and I have had a lot of time with Dyno Dynamics 'dyno's in the past.. neither Fabs or Daves runs were done in 'shootout mode'.. its the only way to guarantee consitent readings IMO.. It was a good comparo to see stage 1 tune vs where Fabs car is at today.. and its considerable, both on the reading and on the road where it really counts.. the only common factor was the fact the runs were done one after the other that day..

get these things down the qtr for some MPH readings.. so many variables meh

[REXman]

Hey, 4th gear is the closest for attaining that 1:1. I think in 4th it's 1:1.036. 5th is 1.09Something. The others are much further off and should be bothered with for accurate dyno figures.

[VW Central]

Hey, 4th gear is the closest for attaining that 1:1. I think in 4th it's 1:1.036. 5th is 1.09Something. The others are much further off and should be bothered with for accurate dyno figures.

Yep, precisely.

[dave_r]

I've been doing some chatting with James from APR, reviewing logs and so forth. My car appears ok and is making the power as expected etc. But I have to say that the APR fanboy'ism on forums like this led me to purchase the stage 1 upgrade thinking it would be as amazing as everything made out.

The reality is that while it has made a difference, it is very slight if at all noticable before 4500rpm. At $1500, I would say that bang for buck is not a valid term to use for the result given. IMO, the fuel pump and front/dump pipe as per Stage 2+ is required to get seat of the pants gains but that is not exactly cheap to do.

(I'll bow out from here on dynos/APR etc, said my bit)

[schoona]

I know talking MkV GTI's that another tune provides the greater 'kick in the pants feel'.

Get to the strip and see what times you run, hopefully can put it down to a poor dyno performance, not your car of APR gear.

[ravun]

Dave_r, thanks for your objective review of the APR stage 1 upgrade.

At the moment I have decided to wait until my first service before getting the stage 1 tune done. Hopefully that lines up with an APR sale.

[Pepe]

I've been doing some chatting with James from APR, reviewing logs and so forth. My car appears ok and is making the power as expected etc. But I have to say that the APR fanboy'ism on forums like this led me to purchase the stage 1 upgrade thinking it would be as amazing as everything made out.

The reality is that while it has made a difference, it is very slight if at all noticable before 4500rpm. At $1500, I would say that bang for buck is not a valid term to use for the result given. IMO, the fuel pump and front/dump pipe as per Stage 2+ is required to get seat of the pants gains but that is not exactly cheap to do.

(I'll bow out from here on dynos/APR etc, said my bit)

I mostly agree with you.. having had the tune for a a bit over a month, it's by no means earth shattering for every day driving. Trying to be objective, I'd say it's slightly noticable above 3000rpm, but flat as ever below that.

[Corey_R]

At $1500, I would say that bang for buck is not a valid term to use for the result given. IMO, the fuel pump and front/dump pipe as per Stage 2+ is required to get seat of the pants gains but that is not exactly cheap to do.

Hi dave.

I feel a bit upset that you are not experiencing the same level of satisfaction that others, including myself, are experiencing with Stage I tunes. But your conclusion is an obvious conclusion in my view. Stage II+ gives you more performance than Stage I.... of course it does - that's a given.

But the other part of your conclusion I would question. What "real world" performance tests have you actually done yet? 0 to 100 runs? Quarter mile runs?

As Fab_R has shown, a Stage I ECU alone is enough to drop the 0 to 100 times to only 4.68 seconds. I'm sorry, but can anyone on these forums name another other performance upgrade costing $1495 or less which gives you ~0.9 second reduction in acceleration for these cars?... apart from another brands Stage I ECU?


I would say that this is the exact definition of "bang for your buck".


I haven't been in your car, and I haven't met you in person yet, but I would expect that a few things are at play here:
1) Your first tuned Golf R experience was Fab_R's Stage II+ tune. With the full exhaust and intake giving much more "driveable torque and power" in the <4500rpm range. Then he's got the fuel pump which adds even more in the mid-range revs. I personally believe that any upgrade less than a Stage II would leave everyone at least mildly disappointed after having that experience as your "Benchmark"
2) Cross-contamination of experiences with Golf GTI (even Polo GTI?) owners where regardless of ECU company, the majority of their gains is <4500rpm. They too have gains above that, but being that they've got a K03 turbo, their ECU tuning results are basically the opposite of the K04 ECU tuning gains. My only K04 tuning experience prior to this was a GIACed Pirelli and I must say that whilst there are obvious differences in drivetrain and weight to the R, the difference between stock and Stage I are similar.
3) The single word typo on APR's site that you had pointed out.


There aren't many people who have had the Stage I tunes done yet on their Golf R's, but for those who have the feedback has been positive. For exmaple, another newbie to VW's when responding to someone else's criticism of the "DSG experience":

I felt almost the same, maybe 6/10 in D mode <snip> we should consider Stage 1 a necessity <snip> I've been using for a couple of weeks and the R is quite simply, a different car. The DSG in D is now 9/10. quick, responsive - aggressive when i choose.

My VW sales guy from Denlo (now CCC) emailed me Friday to say:

Hey thanks for the drive in your R the other day, I drove ours again yesterday and realised just how different, and better, your's was. it's so much smoother after the upgrade.

Of course, weewilly nor my sales guy have experienced Stage II+ like you have


As for tuner fanboi-ism, whether APR, GIAC, REVO, Bluefin etc (it doesn't matter which person you're looking at in this thread, you can label everyone one of us as a fanboi to one of the tuners... schoona and deancorp included).


Anyway, I'm not wanting to beat up on you, I fully appreciate what it can be like when expectations have not been met. I hope that now you've determined that your car is ok that you get out there, enjoy it, and take it down to the track for some 0-100 and quarter mile times rather than base much of your disappointment on dyno graphs which "fanbois" from all camps have already picked the many holes in.

[VW Central]

As Fab_R has shown, a Stage I ECU alone is enough to drop the 0 to 100 times to only 4.68 seconds. I'm sorry, but can anyone on these forums name another other performance upgrade costing $1495 or less which gives you ~0.9 second reduction in acceleration for these cars?... apart from another brands Stage I ECU?

As for tuner fanboi-ism, whether APR, GIAC, REVO, Bluefin etc (it doesn't matter which person you're looking at in this thread, you can label everyone one of us as a fanboi to one of the tuners... schoona and deancorp included).


Anyway, I'm not wanting to beat up on you, I fully appreciate what it can be like when expectations have not been met. I hope that now you've determined that your car is ok that you get out there, enjoy it, and take it down to the track for some 0-100 and quarter mile times rather than base much of your disappointment on dyno graphs which "fanbois" from all camps have already picked the many holes in.

A couple of things.

1.) Has the car actually been tested 0-100 at stock configuration or was it merely just assumed from the stock 0-100 time from the VW spec sheet?
2.) I think a downpipe with a stock Golf R would scrape 0.9 seconds off the 0-100 time without a retune and can cost less then $1495.
3.) I may be favoured towards GIAC because I haven't had any issues with my car, and the figures that I am getting and results I feel were better then expected.
4.) Another thing to remember is since APR is a US based company a lot of their advertising/quoted figures have been performed on a dyno in the states and the US dyno's ALWAYS read higher then what we get in Australia, so it would be reasonable to take 10% off their overall dyno figure to give you a rough idea on what you should expect on our Australian dyno's.
5.) Corey_R: I'm not having a go at you, but to say that a Pirelli Stg 1 GIAC is the same as a Golf R is measured how? Were they both taken to a dyno or both had a 1/4 mile on the same track? A 'butt dyno' does not count. I am sure the Stg 1 Pirelli would eat the stock Golf R a.) because of it's weight difference b.) because of same internals just tuned.