ECU tune and emission requirements

[JonP01]

I am not concerned about the police or being pulled over, etc. In 30 years of driving the only thing I have ever been pulled over for are random breath tests. The concerns are legal ones. All modifications need to be mentioned on an insurance policy and the insurer requires that the car pass all ADRs after any modification. What can and cannot be done is clearly spelt out on the various documents downloable from the Roads and Maritime website. In the event of claim on the insurance for whatever reason, the insurer would be perfectly within their rights to deny a claim unless the vehicle had the appropriate VSCCS certification to prove the vehicle still complies with the ADRs. There is a distinct legal difference between being "pretty sure" there is no problem versus having an official certificate to say there isn't a problem. Most likely the car would still comply - I don't doubt that - but that is insufficent in the eyes of the law and my insurance company (and I don't blame either the law makers or my insuance company for this - I would do the same if I were in their shoes).

Sure, the chances are very high that I am worrying about nothing from a practical perspective (as opposed to a legal perspective) but that does not change the fact that in NSW a car cannot have it's power increased by more than 20% without requiring a certified engineer's report. And without that report then my insurer can simply tell me that they will not pay up in the event of a claim. And yes, I could then probably take my insurer to court and possibly win. But that isn't worth the hassle, time or expense imo.

So it is far easier to simply play by the rules from the get-go rather than to test them and hope for the best.

[Deadpool]

I absolutely understand where you're coming from man. It's a risk and some others are willing to take it. Coming from Orange, NSW myself with a highly modified car I know how stringent the laws can be in regards to that. I was with RACV in NSW an they insure an unlimited amount of legal modifications, not sure who would be so stringent against you.

Best of luck with the Tune though. I'm sure VIEZU can really help you out in that regard.

[The_Hawk]

That is a very interesting point on the certification required and I'm really interested to hear what an engineer would say.

I wonder if Stage 1 now needs a brake upgrade to be legal in NSW?

I thought you could buy "engineered" parts that were already pre tested and approved for install... (or am I just making stuff up?) I wonder if the tuners would (or should) have these things pre-approved or have a local engineer bailed up who understands they are doing the same thing again and again (for a stage 1 anyway).

[Andypants]

I also think you should still get the tune Jon.

In terms of insurance my thought is change companies to one that will support the modified ECU. Who are you insured with now?

I see where your coming from on the pulling over front: Even in my overtly modded Skyline I was only ever pulled over once. When I took the car in for the inspection the most I had to do was wind up the ride height of my coilovers. When it came to emissions not an eye was blinked over the massive 3" gaping pipe I had bolted to the back of by turbo, least of all the Air / Fuel controller sitting on the dash in plain view.

That said I preface this with the fact that things are a bit more Cowboy out West

Honestly... tune that Polo and enjoy mate

[The_Hawk]

While I think we can all agree that the chances of being pulled over or questioned are slim to none and that there are insurers that accept modified vehicles, all of them, even the least strict ones say the mods must be legal as a condition of insurance. As has been pointed out an ECU tune it seems would may very well require certification.

Again, it's unlikely the tune would ever be called into question, but the fact remains that there is a line in the sand and an ECU tune is likely on the other side of that line.

Nationals Standards are here:
Standards Bulletin VSB6

And they say you must also comply with any local requirements.

1.1 BASIC MODIFICATIONS NOT REQUIRING CERTIFICATION
The following are Basic Modifications that may be performed without certification providing the modifications are carried out in compliance with the requirements detailed in Clause 2 General Requirements:
* Fitting a replacement new, used or reconditioned engine;
* Fitting a manufacturer’s optional engine together with any associated components as
supplied by the manufacturer for that same model vehicle;
* Fitting replacement original equipment engine and exhaust components;
* Fitting replacement original equipment, equivalent or better, components that have no influence on engine performance or emissions (e.g. higher volume oil pump than original); and
* Fitting equivalent engines with an increase of up to 20% of original power.
In all of the above cases, if the engine is modified, it must be certified under the relevant Code
of Section LA.

1.2 MODIFICATIONS REQUIRING CERTIFICATION UNDER LA CODES

The following is a summary of modifications that may be performed under Section LA:

* Fitting engines greater than 120% of original power and/or engine mass;
* Fitting performance engines;
* Fitting engines from non original equipment sources;
* Installing a supercharger or turbocharger; and
* Modifying the engine and engine components that results in an increase in engine power of more than 20% and/or affects exhaust emissions.

To break these things down in relation to an ECU tune:

Potentially Acceptable:
* Fitting a replacement new, used or reconditioned engine;
Nope, not doing that.
* Fitting a manufacturer’s optional engine together with any associated components as supplied by the manufacturer for that same model vehicle;
Nope, not doing that.
* Fitting replacement original equipment engine and exhaust components;
Nope, not doing that.
* Fitting replacement original equipment, equivalent or better, components that have no influence on engine performance or emissions (e.g. higher volume oil pump than original); and
Nope, not doing that.
* Fitting equivalent engines with an increase of up to 20% of original power.
Nope, not doing that.

So we don't fall into the acceptable category.

Requiring certification:

* Fitting engines greater than 120% of original power and/or engine mass;
Nope, not doing that.
* Fitting performance engines;
Nope, not doing that.
* Fitting engines from non original equipment sources;
Nope, not doing that.
* Installing a supercharger or turbocharger; and
Nope, not doing that.
* Modifying the engine and engine components that results in an increase in engine power of more than 20% and/or affects exhaust emissions.

Modifying the engine… maybe, not with a stage 1. Modifying the components… well I suppose the ECU is a component… so yep. Looks like this would apply.


BUT, and I'm thinking out loud here:

I can legally put a GTI motor into a lessor model without certification?
Then tune it to 158.4kW without certification…

Now since it's the same chassis and all, could I potentially call tweaking the 77TSI "Fitting equivalent engines with an increase of up to 20% of original power" (based on the max powered unit in the chassis??)

Of course if you are starting with a GTI (or R) there doesn't seem to be any wiggle room since you're just adding more power in excess of the 20%…


In any case, it really does have me interested.

[Andypants]

Nationals Standards are here:
Standards Bulletin VSB6

And they say you must also comply with any local requirements.

Guys am I right in thinking that the Vehicle Standards is a code of practice and therefore not actually law. Also the VSB6 is only applicable to Modified Heavy Vehicles (Trucks).

The appropriate standards to look at would be VSB14 and under modification of engine components nothing relating to +20% max is referenced. The only provision is that any engine mod must meet noise and emission requirements.

Lastly like I said they are standards - the law is as per your state or territory.

Here's the one for NSW Jon - no reference to exceeding 20% here. Under this document provided you don't increase capacity of the engine or change the emissions system - (exhaust or cat) you don't need to be engineer certified by how I read it anyway http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati...s_nov_2007.pdf

[JonP01]

Guys am I right in thinking that the Vehicle Standards is a code of practice and therefore not actually law. Also the VSB6 is only applicable to Modified Heavy Vehicles (Trucks).

The appropriate standards to look at would be VSB14 and under modification of engine components nothing relating to +20% max is referenced. The only provision is that any engine mod must meet noise and emission requirements.

Lastly like I said they are standards - the law is as per your state or territory.

Here's the one for NSW Jon - no reference to not exceeding 20% here. Under this document provided you don't increase capacity of the engine or change the emissions system - (exhaust or cat) you don't need to be engineer certified by how I read it anyway http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati...s_nov_2007.pdf

So it looks legal - it comes down to insurance company that you use

The VBS14 document (light vehicles) still mentions the 20% power increase limit. See NOCP3, page 6 (section 1.2). I also rang an RTA engineer today, told him exactly what I was wanting to do and he confirmed that I would require certification if the power increased by more than 20%, but would be fine if it was under 20%. When I asked him about the emissions side of things, he said that was fine too (no certification) so long as I was not making any actual hardware changes to the emission and exhaust systems.

With that in mind, I will be looking at the BSR or Viezu tunes. I know the BSR tune is fine in all respects but have not heard back from Viezu yet. That said, since my car is MY13, maybe neither company has a tune yet, since apparently the latest ECUs are encrypted and so far only DNA has confirmed they have cracked it.

That other document you linked to is 4 years older and the VSCCS scheme only came into being from 2011 or 2012 I think it was. But it still makes a distinction between significant and minor modifications.

[JonP01]

Btw, there is a funny loophole here. If you go and buy the Audi A1 1.2 TFSI in Australia then tough luck. It has the exact same engine hardware as our Polos, but the Audi engine is further detuned in the stock car. Yet any of the aftermarket tunes will simply tune both these engines up to exactly the same specs. For example, BSR tunes them both to 91 kw and 191 nm. But since the Audi only has 68 kw stock, the power increase is going to be 33% for the Audi (certifcation required) versus 18% for the Polo (nothing required). This illustrates the theoretical shortcomings of the safety standards and the 20% "rule".

[Andypants]

I stand corrected. Glad you've decided to tune via someone at least

[DNA Tuning]

Jonathan, if you are going with the BSR option because the increase in power is mild; then please get in touch with me as we can do the same. Just because we have rated our tune to approximately 100kW does not mean we cannot "de-tune" our tune.

That said, I'm still struggling with the idea that any authorities would be able to analyze ECU data to determine that one tune is producing a few more kilowatts than another tune?