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Thread: building a 2L 8v for turbo?

  1. #51
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    Oh right, hmnn... still, I reckon if you spent enough time looking you would eventaully find one. When you mean tall block, is that the same motor as the new beetle and golf IV's have with the whitish manifold on the top of the cylinder head?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3bb4 View Post
    Yes well, i've never seen the pistons from these motors - hence i have said so numerous times. 7psi is about average factory setting for alot of older turbo motors. 11-12psi is limit of skylines with ceramic turbine wheels, else they break... but if you say that 15psi is average, go for it.

    If you would kindly notice: i did say that the motor will get stuffed if the tune is wrong... but excessive pressure/force on the pistons can also cause failure.... you shall be stressing engine components beyond their designed loads - but these loads would have a safety factor when designed/built, hence why you can alter the engine, and not have these components fail.

    Size of turbo: larger turbos flow more air. More air means needs more fuel for same compression/boost compared to a smaller turbo - less flow, less fuel needed, same boost. Is what i was saying.

    High compression can cause rings to go, as pressure can force it's way past, or can crack ringlands. You seem to have stated that the ringlands must be rather well spaced and it is not an issue for these motors... ok...

    I would *NEVER* base a judgement on the fact that it's a german engineered motor. Not saying that the engineering is bad; but they made the motor to be a 2l n/a motor, not a 300hp turbo motor... and thus if you shove a turbo on and run 300hp... it was not designed for that, as such a design would cost more to build, and thus you are putting stress on engine components that was not meant to be there... so obviously the engine will not last as long, regardless of the tune...
    1. do you own a VW?
    2. large turbo's only flow more air if they can actually spool up... can you read a turbine efficiency chart?
    3. why does my standard diesel mk3 plodder run 14psi standard boost.... and not have reliability issues?
    4. higher compression doesnt put more load on the rings/ringlands - higher peak cylinder pressures does.
    5. talking of connecting rods.... VAG make a lot of cars, and a lot of engines... infact, more engines than cars, since they sell 'em to a lot of other firms.... this means simplifying construction.... its why for years there were only 4 lenths of rods in all vag engines.... and 1 or 2 bearing sizes..... etc etc etc... the point is, anyone who REALLY knows about german engineering can tell you with confidence that your VW engine is nearly always over engineered to buggery - that you can drive it hard all its life and you wont kill it much faster than if you'd driven it like a granny - and that it makes more economic sense to make 10,000,000,000 diesel spec rods in one plant than build 40 different plants to make 40 different types of rods.
    '07 Touareg V6 TDI with air suspension
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by peedman View Post
    Well for one the intake is on the opposite side of the exhaust. I think its referred to as a tall block i.e. 159mm stroke (same as abf) but i could be wrong.
    sorry mate... 159mm stroke?

    that would make the bore 31.6mm....
    '07 Touareg V6 TDI with air suspension
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  4. #54
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    bah i meant that the rods were 159mm. the other size is 144mm

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by gldgti View Post
    1. do you own a VW?
    2. large turbo's only flow more air if they can actually spool up... can you read a turbine efficiency chart?
    3. why does my standard diesel mk3 plodder run 14psi standard boost.... and not have reliability issues?
    4. higher compression doesnt put more load on the rings/ringlands - higher peak cylinder pressures does.
    5. talking of connecting rods.... VAG make a lot of cars, and a lot of engines... infact, more engines than cars, since they sell 'em to a lot of other firms.... this means simplifying construction.... its why for years there were only 4 lenths of rods in all vag engines.... and 1 or 2 bearing sizes..... etc etc etc... the point is, anyone who REALLY knows about german engineering can tell you with confidence that your VW engine is nearly always over engineered to buggery - that you can drive it hard all its life and you wont kill it much faster than if you'd driven it like a granny - and that it makes more economic sense to make 10,000,000,000 diesel spec rods in one plant than build 40 different plants to make 40 different types of rods.
    = VW is good at what they do, I believe is the correct translation

    Does this mean there are any implications witg following turbo builds on ABA's then, besides the manifold of course?

  6. #56
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    Another option would be an ex mini cooper super charger, they're small and would provide the boost you're after, they pop up rather cheap on ebay from time to time(have heard figures of $400 mentioned).

    Would cut back on the need for a turbo manifold, down pipe etc, could pratically use your standard exhaust.

    I haven't heard of any reliability issues with them, appart from premature belt breakage(not a relibaility issue fo the charger itself).

    Cheaper again would be a toyota super charger off the 1GZE 2L 6cylinder.
    Last edited by ausgolfer; 30-01-2008 at 07:33 PM.

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ausgolfer View Post
    Another option would be an ex mini cooper super charger, they're small and would provide the boost you're after, they pop up rather cheap on ebay from time to time(have heard figures of $400 mentioned).

    Would cut back on the need for a turbo manifold, down pipe etc, could pratically use your standard exhaust.

    I haven't heard of any reliability issues with them, appart from premature belt breakage(not a relibaility issue fo the charger itself).

    Cheaper again would be a toyota super charger off the 1GZE 2L 6cylinder.
    Now we're talking

    You can mount one in the place of the factory A/C unit if you run a serpentine belt setup rather than retaining v-belts.

    Re engine management, you can't use a C2 chip as the computers are totally different. Having said that, a crossflow 8v computer will run a counterflow engine if you were to buy an ECU etc from the US... but the loom would need major work as it would be a LHD application.

    I actually think it would be far cheaper to use Megasquirt and incorporate a MAP sensor, then you can use this alongside a TPS and get a very smooth engine.

    Bear in mind with a turbo, there is very little point buying the main necessary bits then only aiming for 190hp - it's just not worth the expense IMO!!

    10psi, Super 60 Garrett or Turbonetics, 9:1 compression, 2.5" exhaust, basic intercooler will have 230hp quite easily and not much lag

    I'll reply to your PM tomorrow

    1976 Project Carbon Mk1 - Sold! | 2015 Lotus Exige Cup | F80 M3 Family Wheels

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3bb4 View Post
    Yes well, i've never seen the pistons from these motors - hence i have said so numerous times. 7psi is about average factory setting for alot of older turbo motors. 11-12psi is limit of skylines with ceramic turbine wheels, else they break... but if you say that 15psi is average, go for it.

    .

    IM SORRY BUT MY FATHER WHO IS A PROF MECH AND A SKYLINES DOWNUNDER FORUM MEMBER AND ALL!!!! THE MEMBERS WHO OWN STANDARD R32 TURBOS BOOST THERE CARS FOR A MAXIMUM SAFE 15PSI

    ANYTHING HIGHER WARES THE TURBO.... LESS OIL THAN AIR PRESSURE

    WABIT


    BTW sorry about capslock i got into the convo and didnt want to retype it half caps hehe
    Last edited by WABIT; 30-01-2008 at 10:03 PM.

  9. #59
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    Yeah well this guy in the US had a 24v Jetta GLI VR6, which had run about 80,000 kays running on 17psi as a daily driver, with just a head gasket spacer and front mount with no significant problems during that time. The car now has well over 220,000 on the dial that is a 490hp car as well

    The turbo is more likely to go than the engine. I'm pretty sure the Falcon XR6T doesn't have any fancy engine components and those things can run on massive boost without crapping out for yonks!

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golf Houso View Post
    Yeah well this guy in the US had a 24v Jetta GLI VR6, which had run about 80,000 kays running on 17psi as a daily driver, with just a head gasket spacer and front mount with no significant problems during that time. The car now has well over 220,000 on the dial that is a 490hp car as well

    The turbo is more likely to go than the engine. I'm pretty sure the Falcon XR6T doesn't have any fancy engine components and those things can run on massive boost without crapping out for yonks!
    good point!
    but the XR6T does have low comp pistons i think
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