APR Stage 1 tune

[Martin]

Generally APR tends to come on strong early and then tail off at the top end. Other tuners will start a little slower and pull right through to redline.

Agreed - that was my experience
The APR stage 2 was a significant improvement, power from lower and pulled hard right up to red line but the mid range torque is huge

[cbwolf]

There are ways that tuning boxes can be detected retrospectively; they're no silver bullet. And because they don't have direct control over a number of critical controls (but instead attempt to 'fool' the ECU into delivering more boost and different timing/AFRs based on misleading sensor values), they're neither as effective or as optimised as an ECU tune.

Many vendors who offer a tuning box have only done so as an intermediary step prior to releasing their own tune, or are specifically chasing the low end of the market.

I never said they were as effective or optimized - i specifically mentioned they weren't. And in terms of being detectable, yes, i suppose if your cars logs were sent back to VAG they would be able to look at things like long term fuel trim and other closed loop logs. A dealer tech is unlikely to be able to tell.

The point is that using a box, your chances of a TD1 or VAG discovering you've modified your car (for warranty purposes) is much, much lower than with a tune. I've never heard, read or seen an example of someone using a box and having a warranty claim rejected. There have even been a number of MK7 Golfs and 8v S3 with the early turbo failures, who were running boxes, that have been fixed under warranty. There have also been a number of examples of cars with a tune, having their warranty claim rejected.

The OP should be aware of all of the options available to them.

[jai]

The BMS JB1 is basically a glorified Boost Controller, so you've still got your ECU performing all the safety tasks as it would from the factory

[AdamD]

The point is that using a box, your chances of a TD1 or VAG discovering you've modified your car (for warranty purposes) is much, much lower than with a tune. I've never heard, read or seen an example of someone using a box and having a warranty claim rejected. There have even been a number of MK7 Golfs and 8v S3 with the early turbo failures, who were running boxes, that have been fixed under warranty. There have also been a number of examples of cars with a tune, having their warranty claim rejected.

There have been instances of warranty claims being denied to cars tuned with a tuning box in the UK. I've not heard of any denials in Australia, but it usually comes down to whether the car is flagged as TD1, or if the ECU has obviously been tampered with. Some cars are coming from the factory now in tamper-proof cages, although apparently the clips/tabs that must be broken to gain access to the ECU can be replaced easily so I'm not sure how effective that method is.

Either way, based solely on the performance of the device and its ability to work more effectively (both in terms of engine management, performance and economy), a good tune will always outperform a tuning box. The advantage of the tuning box is that it's sometimes easier to install, and is potentially less likely to be detectable down the track - although in both cases there are exceptions to the rule.

The BMS JB1 is basically a glorified Boost Controller, so you've still got your ECU performing all the safety tasks as it would from the factory

Any good tune is going to maintain all the ECU's safety devices intact - including knock detection and timing retardation, etc etc. It'll only produce more power by optimising timing and boost when all the conditions are right.

[nat225]

i am always in the opinion if something breaks because you drove it hard with a tune (although the tune didnt directly cause it) during warranty period, it is not fair to attempt making a claim, it is a bit like attempting a fraud (although it is a fine line depending on what caused it, e.g. mk7 r has known turbo issue so the proper tune shouldnt be blamed).

but thats me. when i tuned my car, i forgo all warranty entitlement directly related to the engine. but for other items (power window, reverse cam, etc) i will still claim.

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

[cbwolf]

There have been instances of warranty claims being denied to cars tuned with a tuning box in the UK. I've not heard of any denials in Australia, but it usually comes down to whether the car is flagged as TD1, or if the ECU has obviously been tampered with. Some cars are coming from the factory now in tamper-proof cages, although apparently the clips/tabs that must be broken to gain access to the ECU can be replaced easily so I'm not sure how effective that method is.

Either way, based solely on the performance of the device and its ability to work more effectively (both in terms of engine management, performance and economy), a good tune will always outperform a tuning box. The advantage of the tuning box is that it's sometimes easier to install, and is potentially less likely to be detectable down the track - although in both cases there are exceptions to the rule.

We're basically saying the same thing. A box is much less likely to trigger a TD1 as you just remove it prior to taking it back to the dealer, whilst still providing very decent gains over stock with minimal risk as the stock safety devices are left intact.

The only one i would be even slightly worried about are the AFR. As the ECU is seeing stock boost levels, it keeps the same AFR with in reality an additional 5 psi of boost. Because of this, the ECU will only make the AFR richer when it sees EGT rising - not ideal.

Anyway, people having been running quality tuning boxes (ie. DTUK, JB1, JB4 etc) for many years successfully. I consider them good bang for buck with the added benefit of likely warranty retention.

[Guy_H]

Worth a watch - especially those who think "tuning boxes" have magic tricks. on 10 year old ECU's maybe, but not on today's ECU's. To think otherwise, you are kidding yourself.

[Martin]

Thanks Guy - enjoyed watching that interesting video

[The_Hawk]

That was an awesome little video

[Haydennedyah]

This tune box is interesting, specially if it cant be detected by VW online. Is that true?
Also are these guys any good ?
Does any one use them?
https://www.chiptuning.com/en/chiptuning-vw.html
Need a tune box for a 118 tsi 1.4 jetta