132 TSI / 1.8L - Loss of torque at low revs after stage 1 tune

[Lucas_R]

Just wondering, why can't the dyno measure below 1500rpm? It seems odd that 2,800 is where the dyno measurement begins and is the exact point at which power kicked in on the road.

Not saying that the dyno "wont" measure below 1500rpm, but in my experiece they tend to start measuring from around 1,500-2,000rpm, no doubt for various reasons, such as:

1) Its not good for the engine to go full throttle in a high gear from a very low RPM (dyno runs are usually run with the car in 3rd or 4th gear and this puts a lot of load on the engine at very low revs).
2) The dyno operator needs to push a button when he is ready for the dyno to start recording. So he needs to set the car up, ready to runa nd then push the button to start the dyno recording before pushing the throttle (usually from a keyboard he has sitting on his lap while he is in your car).
3) Vast majority of cars dont make much power or torque below 2,000rpm and I dare say that most people who are getting a dyno reading are more interested in the power higher up in the rev range.

Im just syaing that whoever did this dyno run, could have done a better job of capturing the lower RPM's.

Just for reference, here are some dyno runs from my cars over the past 10 years or so.

[h100vw]

We ran from 60kmh in 4th for most cars on a dyno dynamics. The software on the dyno would hold the car at 60 for 2 seconds with you at full throttle and then release the load to carry out the run. Very repeatable. As both stock and tuned runs were carried out with the same method the plots could be overlaid to see the differences.
Look at UGP graphs to see what I mean

[MurrayKhodd]

I'm still trying to interpret the dyno reports, hoping not to look too much of an idiot when next confront APR's agent here in Brisbane. One thing I'm finding curious is that on my report there is a downturn in torque as the dyno begins recording. There's an initial wobble in the graph for the Golf R, and I see something similar in some other dyno reports I've found online. Is this likely a true reading of what's happening or just an artifact of the measuring process?

BTW, whatever my report might say the Scout is driving FAR better in every situation with the tuning returned to "stock" even though I still don't think it's right. Another concern I have now is whether anything untoward might happen driving around with a CJSA map on a CJSB engine.

I'm sorry about the endless overload of questions. I would have hoped APR and their agent would do more to sort this out rather than telling me what I'm experiencing is impossible. It's like I'm living that old gag about the guy who sends off for a replacement axle for the one broken on his Rolls Royce and gets a curt letter some time later; "Dear Sir, Rolls Royces don't break axles. Yours etc.".

[MurrayKhodd]

A bit of an update for anyone following.

I have now painstakingly overlaid APR's torque curves* over those from my dyno report last week. This clearly indicates that there was something very seriously wrong with the original tune, with a huge amount of expected low-RPM torque missing, and that the attempt to return the car to a stock tune has also resulted in much low-RPM torque missing:

Attachment 55851

So it's back to APR's agent.

*Note that the torque and power curves at APR ECU-18T-EA888-3-T-IS12 APR ECU Upgrade - 1.8T EA888 Gen 3 IS12 (Transverse) can be shown at wheel as well as at crankshaft, and need to be converted from foot-lbs to Nm for the purposes of comparison.

[MurrayKhodd]

Bit tricky posting the chart. Let's see if this works.

[Sharkie]

Mate you best bet would be to go to VW and ask them to reflash the ECU to stock. APR will not have stored your original file and all they would have to fall back on is a "stock" tune (that they copied off a CJSA engine) that is not suitable to your car (seeing its a CJSB).

Your car runs a very specific (and almost unique in the 1.8TSI world) stock tune that is optimised for max torque at extremely low revs. Nobody will have an aftermarket tune for your car that will match that torque at that low revs.

[MurrayKhodd]

Completely agree. I had doubts that they could restore the CJSB tune and thought I'd basically be left with a car that drove like a CJSA but it's not even doing that. I'm thinking the differnce between the two motors has to be something beyond just the stock tune. A different camshaft perhaps?

Anyway, I went to a Skoda dealer and they were very pleasant and told me the only way to get my stock tune back was with a new ECU. $3,500-ish plus 3 to 4 hours labour. I'm wondering if that's just how it is, or maybe it's just that Skoda aren't in the business of flashing chips, and the people that flash chips don't have the right map. So could I just live with it? It's pretty driveable around town but I suspect it might be limited when overtaking with a camper on the open road. Also still less fun to drive than it used to be. Also I'm worried about the long term impact of running an engine on the wrong map.

At this point it seems the only way I'm going to get any redress from those responsible for this is with objective proof that APR's EA888 tunes are unsuitable for the CJSB. Would you think the dyno report is enough? Do I need to figure out how the engines differ? Something else? Any suggestions would be very gratefully received.

[MurrayKhodd]

Given the very high cost of getting Skoda to put my car back to normal I'm booked in with a Northside workshop to check for any hardware problems, and hopefully proceed to another tune.

These guys do custom tunes so I'm hoping that will give me a better outcome. From what I can gather that means that instead of installing an off-the-shelf tune they'll tailor the tune to the car in front of them and the sort of outcome I'm looking for.

Does this sound right? Is this how custom tuning works? Anything I need to look out for?

[Sharkie]

Given the very high cost of getting Skoda to put my car back to normal I'm booked in with a Northside workshop to check for any hardware problems, and hopefully proceed to another tune.

These guys do custom tunes so I'm hoping that will give me a better outcome. From what I can gather that means that instead of installing an off-the-shelf tune they'll tailor the tune to the car in front of them and the sort of outcome I'm looking for.

Does this sound right? Is this how custom tuning works? Anything I need to look out for?

Just so you know, no workshop in Australia can custom tune a VAG car from scratch .... those that claim they do custom tunes all start with a base canned tune and then modify that from there.

Now, the real issue is that to develop a base tune takes months of testing on and off a dyno before it is released, so any "custom" tune done in a few hours is really just messing around the edges of the base tune.

[Lucas_R]

I would highly recommend Ben from Tarmac Engineering if you are in Brissy and want the best chance of a decent tune on your car. He tunes VW/Audis/Skoda's all day long. They are in Cleveland.