MK7 Golf R versus...

[Paul_R]

White James I love reading your reviews, detailed and well written.
Could I ask a favor and ask that you start a 8v S3 vs mk7 golf r thread?? Would be great to have a detailed comparison between the two.
As I am sure you are aware on the golf r thread the S3 vs golf R is a hot topic.
Cheers Alex

I second this!

[sameatworld]

White James I love reading your reviews, detailed and well written.
Could I ask a favor and ask that you start a 8v S3 vs mk7 golf r thread?? Would be great to have a detailed comparison between the two.
As I am sure you are aware on the golf r thread the S3 vs golf R is a hot topic.
Cheers Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1

GTI vs R conclusion wasnt surprising...

I would personally get PP GTI over the new R (and over basic GTI). However such a shame that you can't get manual PP GTI.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[lenojd]

I second this!

Yes please!

[alebonau]

Yes please!

well am sure glad I never hung out waiting for the mk7 golf R

but yes …please…pretty please…white james do take a similarly priced s3 for the same drive. I for one would be very interested to hear what your impressions are

[Lemonskin]

If I had the money, I'd be going S3 over R. But I can only afford the GTI, which is still awesome. Nice comparo mate.

[WhiteJames]

The earlier link to the pics put up shows the difference between the GTI -v- PP GTI -v- R rear brake light clusters. Interesting to see that the Golf R brake lights are quite a bit darker than the PP GTI brake lights. All three vehicles are shown together in a couple of pics.

What didn’t surprise me with the Golf 7 R is that it is evident that the design of this type of vehicle suits the FWD Golf GTI, and lesser Golf range for that matter, as a FWD hatchback design from inception, with the Golf 7 R basically having extra AWD hardware & aggressive chassis and engine tunes as an after-thought.

What did surprise me was the amount of rawness that Volkswagen have tuned into the Golf 7 R. In particular, the turbo whoosh, and especially the suspension tune and lack of ride comfort. I was expecting a fast & very refined fast-hatchback. Instead, Volkswagen have produced a new generation Golf 7 R that is a bit raw in terms of engine sound and suspension tune. This brings the Golf 7 R closer to the harder core hot-hatches, notably the Renault Megane RS265.

With the preceding R32 and MK6 R, Volkswagen had pulled off that refined fast-hatchback theme perfectly. The Golf 7 R has that bit more rawness and edginess that is normally associated with aftermarket tuners that are always willing to forsake ride comfort, cabin NVH and extra turbine whistle that often comes with aftermarket products that do not have to meet OE specs for NVH. I’ve driven a few examples of the MK6 Golf R riding on 19” wheel/tyre package, but never experience the rawness and notably reduced ride comfort of R –v- GTI that the new Golf 7 R produces. The respective MK6 versions of the GTI –v- R were much closer in terms of ride comfort than the equivalent Golf 7 versions.

Another issue, perhaps not made explicitly earlier on, is that when accelerating in each Golf 7 vehicle from a standing start or rolling start, has the Golf 7 R tied down much more effectively, reducing the sensation of build forward thrust. In this respect, the Golf 7 R provided the sensation that is was slower than and less dramatic than the GTI in building speed; that is until you look at the speed-o-meter on the Golf 7 R.

The difference in torque between the two is not that great: 380Nm –v-350Nm between R –v- GTI … with R at 130 kgs weight disadvantage to lug around. The GTI, with its less focused & softer suspension tune, that causes the chassis to move around to a greater degree, was the Golf that always felt more urgent when pressing the loud pedal. I’m sure that the Golf R was the quicker of the two, but the GTI always felt more urgent and for day to day driving, the difference may not be as stark as official figures may suggest.

The Golf 7 R being so hunkered down and grippy, the Golf R would need a good deal of engine tuning to feel as urgent as the GTI for rolling responsiveness. On the other hand, you can tell that the GTI has been purposefully held back to aid FWD grip levels for a improved and cohesive overall package. I think this is evident in the sticky feeling throttle of the GTI and slower build up of power, but perhaps not torque. I cannot see the Golf 7 R winning any driver engagement accolades.

If only I had the time to conduct another Golf R –v- Audi S3 review of GTI –v- PP GTI review. I sent the review to Ray to read to see if my thoughts had any bearing on his decision to stick with the Golf 7 R as opposed to the GTI, GTI PP or Audi S3. He still sticking with an intent to move into a Golf 7 R well or fully optioned for around 57K … and why wouldn’t he … as he only has a 20min commute to work just out of the Sutherland Shire, where the roadways are not so bad, doesn’t have a family to cart around, very rarely drives long trips interstate and has a preference for options and sporty big wheels, so the rawer, stiffer and terser ride of the Golf 7 R may not trouble Ray as much as some others. I guess the Golf 7 R will suit his tastes to a tee.

WJ

[Dutch77]

I think it's good that VW has provided some differentiation between the models.

The GTI is more than enough for most and I am definitely after the refinement aspects - that's why I'm not concerned by the ongoing media reports of the GTI being a little clinical compared to some rivals. Leave the hardcore stuff to the R for people who either want that, or intend to modify more heavily and need AWD to get that power down (or who just have to have the R because it's top of the range).

[AdamD]

What did surprise me was the amount of rawness that Volkswagen have tuned into the Golf 7 R. In particular, the turbo whoosh, and especially the suspension tune and lack of ride comfort. I was expecting a fast & very refined fast-hatchback. Instead, Volkswagen have produced a new generation Golf 7 R that is a bit raw in terms of engine sound and suspension tune. This brings the Golf 7 R closer to the harder core hot-hatches, notably the Renault Megane RS265.

When you think about it, this decision by VW (to adjust the focus of the R somewhat) makes good sense from a product placement perspective. The GTI and (to a lesser extent) GTI PP both offer a refined everyman's performance hatch experience; if the R applied the same formula (as it did with the Mk6), there'd be less to differentiate the product in the range, and VW wouldn't have a fast Golf to appeal to those looking for a more hardcore performance offering. If you read the UK and European reviews of the car, it's been very well received in its new guise - especially considering the generally-better quality of their road surfaces where a harsh ride is less of a problem.

This fits in well with VWA's new strategy with options as well. You can't spec a Mk7 R highly at all (still povvo-spec headunit and audio, no aesthetic add-ons, no better leather, etc etc), which likely suits the target market and the car's more singular focus.

Bear in mind the R will still be some way off the Megane in overall performance focus. The super-racy end of the market is a very limited one in terms of volumes, and while many are glad the RS265 exists, few are actually prepared to buy one and live with it every day - for good reason.

In Australia, we've got it good from a buying perspective - there is now the full compliment of cars available, and if we want something more akin to the previous R in terms of comfort, refinement and spec, there's the excellent (and bargain) Audi S3. Which is likely where my money will be going this time round.

[WhiteJames]

Wheels Magazine (May 14) Golf GTI -v- R review:

R: 8/10
PP GTI: 9/10
GTI: 9/10

Wheels article mirrors my views exactly re: GTI -v- R.

[WhiteJames]

Referring to the Wheels Magazine (May 2014) review of the R-v- PP GTI : It’s important to note that the journos are saying the same thing as I re: Golf R. That is that the Golf 7 R losses a lot of that fluid type of chassis balance and consequent driver involvement. Instead, the Golf R chassis is tied & hunkered down in a more race car like manner, making it more rough around the edges on the public roadway. Wheels are also indicating that perhaps the firm ride of the Golf R may be a bit too much for every day use on crap AUS roadways.

Bear in mind that Wheels Magazine is a bit more conservative in its approach to vehicle reviews, reflecting the mind-set of the average Joe, as opposed to other publications that focus on the hard core enthusiast. It may not surprise me that the harder core publications (EVO, Motor Mag) would give the GTI –v- R win to the R, but putting a low weight on the firm Golf R ride comfort & overlooking the raw edginess in chassis tune that feels to be aftermarket.

‘Kudos to those that have purchased a Golf GTI – PP’

Early reviews are saying that the GTI-PP is the pick of the three sporting Golf’s (GTI, GTI – PP and R) as the best compromise between performance –v- comfort and driver engagement. Pity it doesn’t come in a manual. Here’s a motoring.com.au review that gives the nod to the GTI – PP … makes me it bit envious in a way:

Volkswagen Golf GTI Performance 2014 Review - motoring.com.au

It’s not all bad for the Golf R … it seems that the harder core hatchbacks become … morphing into super-fast hatchbacks, the less they inspire from a driver involvement and ride comfort perspective. They seem to fit the bill perfectly if you’re a rozzer chasing armed felons in stolen high performance vehicles. Here’s an autoexpress.co.uk review that has the Golf R on top of the Merc A45 AMG and Audi RS-Q3:

Volkswagen Golf R vs mega-hatch rivals | Auto Express

WJ