MK6 -v- MK7 : Golf GTI

[WhiteJames]

It was a bonus to find out that the standard Golf 7 GTI comes with front park sensors in addition to rear park sensors. Additionally, there is a park-pilot function that you switch on if you are driving down a very narrow laneway to assist you in how close the GTI is to other objects, which shows up as a silhouette on the centre info screen.


In regards to the dipping passenger’s side mirror, as earlier stated, the driver has to put the park brake on, turn ignition on, put gear into reverse and the adjust the passenger’s side dipping mirror to help prevent kerb the 18” Austin Wheels.


In addition to this, the Golf 7 GTI requires you to access the ‘CAR’ setup menu on the centre-info screen and choose wipers & mirrors function. Each of the two driver’s key has its own frequency, so the dipping passenger side mirror will have a specific angle depending on which GTI key the driver uses … one for you, another for your partner. The passenger’s side dipping mirror is working as expected. Cheers.


A subsequent drive today was a shorter drive in the afternoon re: running in the Golf 7 GTI. I’m adamant that as many drives as possible within the 1500rpm initial running phase has to involve some form of hill-climb. This is to ensure that I will not have to put oil into the Golf 7 GTI between service intervals.


I believe in following the owner’s manual for the run in phase, rather than thrashing the motor hard, as high revs may result in washing out the cylinders as the motor may dump excess fuel at high revs to keep the turbine cool. This may wash out oil from under the rings, possible scorching the bore. Keep revs low and loading up the motor up-hills is more prudent imo.


Three runs up and down to the Boat Shed in the Royal National Park, just south of Sydney was done with driving modes in Normal, Sport and Comfort settings, one after another. This gave me an opportunity to compare the Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI with the demonstrator Golf 7 GTI with DSG I drove a few weeks back.


Earlier on, the Golf 7 GTi with DSG with 2-up occupants (salesman and I) had the XDS differential pinching the inside front wheel shifting power to the out-board front driving wheel from apex to corner exit. This was apparent on both downhill and uphill drives.

XDS intervention was less apparent on my new Golf 7 GTI with Manual Transmission. It appears that the slightly heavier DSG version of the Golf 7 GTI which more than likely involves slightly higher front spring rate seems to have the XDS electronic pseudo diff lending more proactive support around bends. We’re not talking a great degree, subtle although notable differences in XDS operation between DSG and MT. One extra occupant on board may also have contributed to tendency of XDS to intervene more so in the DSG Golf 7 GTI.


The DSG version of the Golf 7 GTI, with extra weight of the DSG up front and most probably slightly heavier rate front springs did require a bit of extra effort to tip into the corners, with a tendency towards a little more under-steer into corners, making the drive less fluid than in my Manual Trans Golf 7 GTI. It’s not going to be a deal breaker, but prospective owners should drive both DSG and Manual Trans to be sure. It does feel to me that the stated difference of 13kgs extra weight of the DSG up front is apparent, and at times feels more to be 15-20kgs as is the case with the difference in weight between the MK6 DSG and Manual Trans GTI’s.


The slightly lighter front end of the Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI with an apparent slightly less spring rate at the front end is that bit more agile, both handling better with a touch better ride quality. The Manual Golf 7 GTI feels to roll onto the outside front wheel a little more, allowing for that bit more turn-in bite into bends and a greater amount of fluidity right through the bend. This was expected and no different to the earlier GTI examples (MKV, MK6) when comparing DSG –v- MT. Despite the slight differences between the DSG and MT Golf 7 GTI’s, the XDS appears to be more proactive in the Golf 7 GTI regardless of the transmission type when comparing against the previous MK6 Golf GTI.

In comparison with the earlier MK6 Golf GTI: the earlier MK6 Golf GTI moves around to a greater degree from a mechanical perspective, even with DCC fitted to the MK6. The driver feels the heavier front nose into corners and then the rear sway bar compensating with some lateral force to aid the nose around corners once the chassis takes a moment to settle on the outside tyres. The movement of the front and rear is more pronounced in the older MK6 Golf GTI.

The Golf 7 GTI offers much less feeling of suspension movement due to greater composure and a more balanced chassis. Whereas the heavier MK6 Golf GTI seems to have an initial firmer spring rate, once lateral forces start to build, feels softer & moves around more so. The Golf 7 GTI feels to have an advantage in that the lighter chassis allows for a more uniform spring rate that improves in the reduction of body roll, while at the same time offer a smoother & more comfort ride. The springs in concert with the lighter weight seem to contain the Golf 7 GTI chassis to a far greater degree.

Overall, I would not say that the Golf 7 GTI suspension tune is tuned to be firmer than the earlier MK6 Golf GTI. I wouldn’t say that the Golf 7 GTI suspension tune is more inert either, as can be the case with the much heavier harder-core hatches such as the Audi RS3/Merc A45 AMG that can be more track focused. The Golf 7 GTI is just more focused, stable and with less tendency to under-steer and greater stability in the rear end esp. in the operation of the rear sway bar. The driver is able to perceive that the wheelbase is longer in the Golf 7 GTI, adding in extra stability during cornering. Tightening the line on closing radius corners does not have the rear sway bar on the Golf 7 GTI working nearly as hard as the older MK6 Golf GTI, but at the same time making greater progress with less driver effort.

The Golf 7 GTI was sounding better on this steeply graded route in regards to motor acoustics, showing some traits of racy type of sounds, but never completely losing that low pitched gravelly engine note.

The highlight of the three running-in motor drives down to the Boat Shed was when having the Golf 7 GTI in Sport setting, where handling and performance is more akin to the harder-core Renault Megane RS265, with the exception of the Steering in Sport setting, which feels to be a tad sticky around centre with a desire to consistency return to centre. The MK6 GTI with DCC had this propensity, but not as pronounced. I guess it’s to protect the driver from oversteering into a corner with the firmer damping of the chassis & greater tyre/mechanical grip of the new Golf 7 chassis, which points into corners faster than the MK6. The Sport setting also reduced noise when the suspension struck a change-of-surface bitumen bump on one particular corner when going up-hill –v- compared to the softer Normal and Comfort settings.

Based on my vague memory, three Boat Shed runs up and down in the MK6 Golf GTI, one for each of the three DCC settings, had fuel economy readings of about 13.3 litres/100km. The Golf 7 GTI did today’s three runs up and down the hill-cliimb with a fuel economy reading of 11.2 litres/100km, although this was with a 4,000rpm rev limit. The Golf 7 GTI appears to warm a bit faster than the MK6 in terms of oil temperature.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

A few other things I’ve noted about the new Golf 7 GTI:

The Golf 7 GTI is easier to place to the roadway than the previous model MKV and MK6 Golf GTI’s. The MKV was the worst to place on the roadway, with heaps of factory induced understeer & body roll. The MK6 with XDS and stiffer rear sway bar was greatly improved for driver ease of placement. The MK6 with DCC is much better again in terms of placing the GTI exactly where you want it. The Golf 7 GTI is so much easier to place than all preceding GTi models.

Traversing around the mountainous roadways over the past few days, I have not struck one cats-eye on my side of the roadway, as the Golf 7 GTI offers greater directness and sharpness when placing it on the roadway around corners, I guess this can be attributed to the progressive steering, lighter weight, longer chassis footprint, less under-steer and more proactive XDS system. It’s not all good though.

I’ve gleaned that the XDS system in the Golf 7 GTI is also more proactive than the previous model GTI in damp conditions, with moist & damp to wet roadways. It’s not a stability ESC type of engagement, but a proactive dab of the front and sometimes rear brakes to aid the Golf 7 GTI into corners. I’m forming the opinion that due to the extra focus in the 7 chassis, in concert with lighter weight & greater mechanical & effective tyre grip, everything happens quite a bit faster in the Golf 7 GTI in comparison to previous models.

I think Volkswagen have taken that into consideration when developing the XDS/ESC functions on the Golf 7 GTI. Be mindful that the proactive XDS/ESC nudges do occur on entry into bends, which I cannot see changing in the other variants such as the PP GTI and Golf 7 R. This does take a bit away from the driver’s ability to muscle the Golf around a series of bends. If you want the ultimate in driver involvement, look elsewhere. Thankfully, the Golf 7 GTI makes up for the loss in ultimate driver engagement in added refinement imo.


The higher geared manual transmission Golf 7 GTI on the highway on a slight to moderate incline at about 100kph will struggle to increase speed on light throttle application in 6th gear. The port injection may also have something to do with this in addition to the long final 6th gear ratio of the manual transmission Golf 7 GTI. I’d agree with some media reports that the DSG version of the Golf 7 GTI would do a better job of masking this, in addition to being slightly lower geared for the top 6th gear ratio.


In damp to wet conditions, I’ve found that Sport setting is more fun going uphill during mountain climbs as the Sport setting encourages the driver to be a bit more ham-fisted. Normal setting for coming down the mountain-side in damp to wet conditions, allowing for that bit more chassis movement & articulation adding driver awareness and feel, in addition to slightly more natural steering, feel for lower-grip situations. In the dry, Sport setting is the one to go for to carve up and down the hilly terrain.

The manual transmission Golf 7 GTI is more involving than the DSG. This requires more focus from the driver, which in turn keeps the driver from letting the GTI get away from you in terms to sticking at or below the speed limit, especially on downhill runs. Going uphill, you do lose 5-10kph during gear-changes in the manual, which aids the driver to keep an eye on the speedometer.

Finally:

I’m going to ask you guys to do the arithmetic when vying for that empty gap in traffic. Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission with 350Nm at a lowly1500rpm weighing in at 1213kgs (maybe 1-2 kilos more with window tint) … or … Ray’s almost fully optioned MK6 Golf R DSG with 330Nm at a higher 2200rpm weighing in at around 1500kgs?

Which vehicle is most likely to secure that empty traffic spot?

WJ

[WhiteJames]

When looking for a new Golf 7 GTI, considered either White or Black colour. Greater availability of White in my spec ... so White it is. Therefore get to keep the user name of WhiteJames. White also contrasts nicely with the Carbon window tint.

See pictures of the new White Golf 7 GTI on post #511 of page 24: WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - Page 24 - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com .

WJ

[Diesel_vert]

I’m going to ask you guys to do the arithmetic when vying for that empty gap in traffic. Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission with 350Nm at a lowly1500rpm weighing in at 1213kgs (maybe 1-2 kilos more with window tint) … or … Ray’s almost fully optioned MK6 Golf R DSG with 330Nm at a higher 2200rpm weighing in at around 1500kgs?

Which vehicle is most likely to secure that empty traffic spot?

Despite the power advantage, faster 0-100 km/h time and faster shift times (DSG) in Ray's car, I'll give the nod to your GTI because of its power-to-weight ratio advantage, especially for rolling starts below 5000 RPM.

However, the results may vary depending on any significant differences in gearing and traction issues. I also assume that the DSG in Ray's car was prevented from automatically downshifting into the lowest gear available.

[AdamD]

However, the results may vary depending on any significant differences in gearing and traction issues. I also assume that the DSG in Ray's car was prevented from automatically downshifting into the lowest gear available.

Why assume the DSG can't shift down if the manual can? My money's on the R, especially if a downshift (from cruising gear to lowest possible gear) is involved. And once the R is beyond 2200rpm and is closer to peak power, it'll walk away. Otherwise, based solely on tractability in a high gear from near-idle, the GTI will have it over a short distance.

The Mk7 R may rectify this situation, as long as the final Australian spec isn't too heavy. Mind you, journos haven't been too positive about the new S3's lack of lag thus far, so who knows.

[Tom87]

I always found the steering wheel in the mk6 GTI, one of the best I have used and seen and the engine note a disappointment.

A thinner steering wheel and less racy exhaust note, seems like backward steps in my view, but I get the feeling I am must be on the fringes of GTI owners, as I also want a mechanical handbrake and ESP that can be fully switched off.

I agree with you on the handbrake and ESP, electronics should be able to be killed off completely for people who want to try and pretend they can drive (like me haha) in a controlled environment. How the hell do you do a ful sik handbrakie on gravel or grass with an electric handbrake? haha

but the steering wheel..not so sure, i was not a fan of the mk VI steering wheel. Too thick and the perforated leather was put in the wrong spots. The MkV steering wheel to my hands is much nicer than the VI, and from just sitting in the mkVII I would agree it looks a bit thin but the hands on feel is surprisingly good.

It is about time the Golf received a steering rack which actually suited the flat bottom steering wheel.... Having a flat bottom wheel with a normal road car steering rack isn't particularly exhilarating...particularly when you're busy doing other required city things like eating and drinking lattes.

[Tom87]

On that note, to the OP, Dear WhiteJames, can you please rate the cupholders in the Mk7? Are they a significant improvement over the Mk5/6 ? Specifically for holding a traditional 8 oz takeaway coffee cup?

I find in the older models the cup tends to spill too readily even on rough roads. I don't believe they cradle the cup properly.

[Diesel_vert]

Why assume the DSG can't shift down if the manual can? My money's on the R, especially if a downshift (from cruising gear to lowest possible gear) is involved. And once the R is beyond 2200rpm and is closer to peak power, it'll walk away. Otherwise, based solely on tractability in a high gear from near-idle, the GTI will have it over a short distance.

If the drivers of both cars instantly floored it, the DSG would simply downshift into the lowest available gear and win, unless WJ does likewise in his GTI.

The GTI produces the same amount of power as the R until 4500 RPM (which then flatlines until 6000 RPM), but the R continues to produce power until it reaches 6000 RPM. This, along with AWD, explains why the R should be faster from 0 - 100 km/h.

However, the R is 183 kg (tare weight) heavier than the GTI, and due to its power-to-weight ratio, it is the GTI that will most likely "secure that empty traffic spot", especially below 5000 RPM.

In theory.



Time for WJ (with his friend assisting) to conduct a experiment, perhaps? All in the name of science, of course...

[WhiteJames]

Originally, I was looking at purchasing a Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission (MT) with (PP) Power-Pack (LSD) on better-riding 18 wheels without DCC. My intention was to install a set of genuine Volkswagen Driver Gear Sports lowering springs + Bilstein Sport dampers to sharpen up the handling of the Golf 7 GTI PP. Volkswagen have thwarted my plans by failing to bring a Manual Transmission GTI PP without DCC. Looks like all GTI’s, Golf R’s and Sicrocco’s will come with DCC standard.

After finding out that the GTI PP comes with DSG only, which adds further weight to the already 32kgs of the LSD including larger brakes, in addition to the GTI PP also coming with options I didn’t need, nor want such as Bi-Xenons, fancy rear ligthts and in particular rougher riding 19” wheels … my attention turned to the standard spec Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI as it was the lightest and most agile GTI for everyday normal use, provided you stay under 9/10ths.

Being an owner of a new Golf 7 GTI, I’m not so sure that the Golf 7 GTI needs a set of VW Driver Gear (DG) Sport lowering springs with factory DCC dampers. The ride of the standard Golf 7 GTI is very good, the low speed compression damping rate patter & incessant bobbing up/down at higher speeds on the highway is not so much an issue in the Golf 7 GTI as it was in the previous MK6 Golf GTI, which was required to be stiffer due to greater weight and higher CoG.

I doubt that genuine Volkswagen DG Sport lowering springs would offer a great amount of increase in spring rate as the Golf 7 GTI, in particular the manual transmission standard Golf 7 GTI, is a lighter vehicle, therefore not requiring too much of an increase in spring rate for slightly lower ride height. The extra front negative camber of the Golf 7 GTI DG Sport springs would come in handy for cornering in the dry, but you’d lose a bit of public roadway lower chassis adjustability, which the Golf 7 GTI doesn’t have that much of as it’s so composed & taut compared to the previous MK6 Golf GTI.

Be mindful that the ultimate hot-hatches such as the Audi RS3/Merc A45 AMG do not often win comparison tests when tested on the public roadways as they are so focused, rigid, stiff and heavy, taking a bit away from driver involvement & engagement at lower public roadway speeds re: lowering & stiffening up the suspension on the new Golf 7 GTI. I prefer that light-on-your-feet fluid & agile handing of a vehicle with less weight.

I don’t miss the DSG stutter at car park speeds & on hills, although the DSG in the new Golf 7 GTI seems to have improved re: low speed stutter, feeling smoother at carpark speeds & reversing. In the wider context, all variants of the Golf, whether they be Golf 7 GTI standard, PP or Golf R … will all understeer from 9/10ths and above and especially in damp conditions.

On first inspection, the centre console cup holders look a bit cheap with the spring-loaded nodes that jut out from the lower grade plastic cup housing. The cup-holders with the sprung weight of the nodes does a better job of holding water bottles and the cup-holders also appear to be slightly deeper. I haven’t tried coffee cups yet, but various types of water bottles are adequately held, even when snaking around the tight-twisties, and work bette than the cup-holdes in the MKV and MK6 Golf’s.

The centre console compartment has much more room than the previous MK6 with factory MDI fitment. Best of all, there is a red stripe along the inside door trims and on the lower foot sills. The red lines illuminate in the night, defining the boundaries of the door & door sills. The red stripe looks really cool at night in the dark. I also like that you sit lower with a lower dash cowl.

The MK6 Golf R –v- Golf 7 GTI debate is an interesting one. Regardless of the size of wheel & tyre put on the MK6 Golf GTI/R, you will not have the rigidity of the chassis, nor the suspension integrity, nor the mechanical grip that the new Golf 7 offers. The MK6 feels like it’s a runner with good shoes, but weak ligaments failing to keep the chassis taut and not using or pushing the tyre as hard into the ground compared to the Golf 7 GTI.

I may have to take Ray up on his offer for a drive of his almost fully loaded MK6 Golf R DSG to test more than just the suspension noise and chassis B-pillar chassis-torqueing on big one wheel hits. Ray is interested in test driving the new generation Audi S3, which he should. Although Audi S3 vehicles do not offer great resale value for the money you pay, especially if you like your bells & whistles on your ride as Ray does. It’s important to note extras such as 19” wheels, sunroof, leather electric adjustable seats, all adds extra weight to a heavier MK6 Golf R.

Flicking through the owner’s manual, it’s interesting to note that my Golf 7 GTI has a built in lap-timer incorporated into the centre dash infotainment/SatNav/Radio/Car Controller screen, not that I’d plan on using it. Volkswagen may be able to download this info later on if an issue arises I’d imagine.

Here's a review between the Focus ST, Megane RS265 and Standard Golf GTI. The Golf GTI claws back some ground to the RenaultSport RS265 in terms focus and ability:

Hot hatch comparison: Volkswagen Golf GTI v Ford Focus ST v Renault Sport Megane 265 |Â*CarAdvice

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

What did the service manager have to say about Ray's R issues? I imagine Ray is gutted he did not wait for a base model GTI!