MK6 -v- MK7 : Golf GTI

[AdamD]

• Tyre condition and pressures – approx 50% worn. Axle tramp has been there since day 1, so going from brand new tyres to 50% worn hasn’t made a difference. Pressure: 36 psi

• Tyre size and type - 225/45/17 Bridgestone Turanza ER300. As an aside, I bought the car brand new and it came with these Turanza tyres. No idea why the dealer put touring grade tyres on a GTI

The tyres you're using are not known for their high-performance qualities or road grip. This will certainly be a contributing factor. I'm surprised they were factory-fitted; Turanza weren't a factory fitment for the first few years of GTI production that I was aware of. (My car was fitted with Bridgestone RE050s, but I got rid of those in short order and now run much stickier and quieter Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s in 225/40 R18.)

I normally run quite high tyre pressures (suit the tyres I'm using) - around 40psi. However for better grip when launching hard, many people subscribe to the theory that lower pressures are a lot better (again, this is somewhat tyre-dependent). Guys on the strip will often drop their pressures into the low 20s or even into the teens to get a great 60-foot time. Obviously don't do this on the road, but consider trying a marginally lower pressure in your front tyres for a while (eg 32psi) and see if it makes a difference.

• Shock/damper type/setting/condition - Absolutely stock standard. Car is 2.5 years old with 30,000km, so condition should be OK. Amount of axle tramp has not changed in the last 2.5 years

• Launch technique - I never dump the clutch. I let the clutch engage and get the car rolling on part throttle first, then apply close to WOT. Axle tramp would come in from around 4,00rpm in first gear. Same with rolling starts in first gear - car pulls quite well in first gear up until around 4,000rpm, then the jack hammering starts and I have to back off

I see from your signature that your car is fitted with DCC. Try your launches in Comfort mode and see if that improves the situation, and compare and contrast with Sport. Overly firm (or overly soft) dampers can lead to wheel hop. Don't leave it in Normal mode.

If you're applying WOT in first gear (especially in a low-grip situation like a wet road), you're going to get wheelspin. Depending on how much wheelspin you get, the characteristics of the tyre, suspension loading and damping etc etc, the wheel will only spin so much before wheel hop can set in. (With a stage 1 or greater GTI, WOT anywhere in first gear - wet or dry - is really not a sensible option. A stock car is better - power-down is really quite good considering, largely due to weight - but it's still not perfect.) A front-wheel drive car will lift its nose as it accelerates and weight transfers rearward; this unloads the tyres just as you're applying more throttle and the engine reaches peak torque and power. Not an ideal situation. You're not going to get nasty wheel hop and axle tramp if you don't let the wheelspin get out of control - you need to be aware of it and apply throttle judiciously, otherwise you're just wasting your car's accelerative energy in wheelspin. A bit of slip is okay, as long as wheel speed is close to vehicle speed; when there's a bit variance is when you have problems. Remember also that once the wheels are spinning, it requires less power to keep them spinning than if they had maintained traction (which means that if you're gentle early, you can apply more throttle later and get a better result than had you applied constant throttle right through first gear.)

• Temperature/humidity - Happens at all temperatures / humidity. Have not noticed any correlation

• Car loading (passengers, fuel) Fuel load does not make a difference. Axle tramp very noticeable with driver only. Is less severe with driver and front passenger (extra weight therefore more traction), but still happens.

As mentioned before, mine axle tramps from rolling starts as well. Typical example - when accelerating after turning right at a round about. Very mild if in second gear, but very severe when in first gear, from around 4,000rpm onwards.

Temperature and humidity affect the coefficient of grip of the tyres, and also the road surface. Changes can be minor, or they can be significant depending on the circumstances. You may, or may not, notice a difference depending on the road and the day.

Rolling start versus standing start makes no difference - you will be able to get into a situation where the weight transfers rearwards unloading the front wheels, and you reach peak torque/power, irrespective of whether you were moving or stationary before you started.

Is yours a manual as well? What tyres / size / pressure do you have? Any mods to suspension? Would like to understand the difference.

Mine's a DSG; tyre details above. I run stock suspension and do not have DCC fitted to my car.

As was discussed in the other thread, I wouldn't be surprised if the problem you're having is the engine moving around on soft engine mounts - particularly if this behaviour sets in immediately without some period of lead-in wheelspin first. There are quite a few things you can do to address this, and you can also get your mounts checked as well just to make sure they're not cracked or damaged.

And now, back on topic.

[slam]

Thanks for the most comprehensive reply Adam !

[AdamD]

Thanks for the most comprehensive reply Adam !

No dramas mate.

[WhiteJames]

Ray has test driven the new Golf 7 GTI (DSG) while his MK6 R was in for fixed price service ($400). He didn't say much in his SMS, but indicated that the MK6 Golf R still offered benefits. Ray reckons that Audi's are for old people and that he will look at an Audi when his is 60 years of age. I disagree.

The Golf 7 R is apparently 2,000 GBP less than the Audi S3 in the U.K.

Here's a demo supplied by autoexpress.co.uk of a Golf 7 R doing a bit of drifting on a closed frozen Swiss Lake (or is that Swedish Lake?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_LVUuGNW_A

Here's another review ... this time a Golf 7 PP GTI that offers some good shots of the vehicle, if nothing else:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylROYGM-eQE

Can't say I've had any major issue with front wheel hop in either the MK6 Golf GTI or Golf 7 GTI.

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Ray certainly does a fair few kilometres round the shire. It must be difficult to remember all this stuff sometimes. James, I am really sorry, but you strike me as Mr Bean with a moderately fast car (albeit base model).

[Cantgiveyouthat]

In case you forgot James, Ray bought a loaded R late October when it was already evident that it had no oil loss, at odds with some of the feedback on these forums. On a positive note Ray will be loving the fuel economy of the r doing 4k's a month. Ray could have saved a mozza on a base model GTI, but there would have been no fun in that.

[WhiteJames]

When dealing with Ray, we need to think outside the box! Ray has his Golf R serviced every 6 months. Personally, I’ll stick to yearly or 15,000km services for my GTI as it only receives normal type of use.

It’s interesting to read the comments in the latest Motor Mag re: Focus ST –v- Golf 7 GTI –v- Merc A250 AMG comparision. Journalists are stating that the Golf GTI was lacking in front end grip compared to the Focus ST. I’d have to agree to a certain extent. Part of the reason, although a very small part, may be down to the Focus ST chassis tune & tyres.

I think a big part of the reason for the comments by Motor Mag is that the Focus ST is about 100+kgs heavier than the standard Golf GTI manual transmission. The heavier weight would most likely be pushing down on the Focus ST tyres a bit harder, esp in low grip situations. The extra 10mm width of the Focus ST tyre width may also add a bit of grip level to the Focus ST. This bodes well for those with an order for the PP GTI, with extra weight improving straight-line traction (in addition to LSD).

The Merc A250 AMG is a looker, but give me the ride comfort/refinement of the Golf 7 GTI any day.

Another point that Motor Mag has picked up on in their long term Golf 7 GTI manual transmission vehicle is that fuel consumption looks good on paper, but in the real world, the consumption is not that much better than the preceding MK6 Golf GTI (6.2 –v- 7.6 avergage).

I’ve noticed improved fuel consumption on the Golf 7 GTI of up to 2 litres per 100km on short blasts from Cronulla into the Royal National Park, just driving the hilly Boat Shed run. This is when the motor is working under load working hard up steep hills. Improve thermal dynamics no doubt plays its part in saving fuel.

The MK6 Golf GTI DSG would be just under 13.5 litres compared to the just under 11.5 litres for the new Golf 7 GTI MTrans for the Boat Shed run. Otherwise fuel savings of 0.2 to 0.5 litres seems to be closer to the mark for the improvement in the Golf 7 GTI MTrans, but nothing like the 1.0-1.5 litres Volkswagen are claiming for the Golf 7 GTI as an improvement over the preceding MK6 Golf GTI.

I’ve also notice for the first few minutes of warm up, the motor seems to run a bit rough, gyrating on the engine mounts causing vibration into the cabin. This seems to go away after 3-5 minutes, where the motor then runs tangibly smoother than the previous MK6 Golf GTI, almost like Volkswagen have added a layer of Teflon into the engine for extra smoothness and free-revving ability, despite the torque rich power delivery sitting between a MK6 Golf GTI and MK6 Golf GTD.

I’m happy with my choice with the manual transmission in the Golf 7 GTI, as are the journos at Motor Mag. I think that due to less weight of the Golf 7 GTI chassis coupled with the extra weight of the DSG gearbox seems to have a bigger negative effect on handling dynamics in the Golf 7 than it did in the MK6 Golf (approx. 15 kgs extra for the DSG) as adding 15 kgs at the front is proportionately greater in the Golf 7. I’d still be going for a manual transmission Golf 7 R or Audi S3 if it were my money.

WJ

[Jimi]

I think part of the grip issues can be put down to the Bridgestone tyres which are standard on most Aussie GTIs. Overseas markets get a mix that also includes contis and dunlops which are said to be far better

[WhiteJames]

My GTI is running on Dunlop Sport Maxx SP Asymmetrical tyres. 350Nm is a lot to put down in a fairly light hatchback vehicle.
WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

So Ray goes servicing every four months on your numbers James. But I'm sure you knew that. It probably makes him feel better since he purchased such an inferior motor to the base model GTi. Have you driven an A250 or 45AMG to make your statement at least have some validity?

Why do you agree with the journalists when we both know you have driven neither. The ST is a ****box inside but that is as far as I got. I've sat in the merc and had similar thoughts. I have driven neither model.

Do not rely on the MFD for consumption. The old one at least was ****.

Plus points for telling me that engines like to warm up though.

For what it is worth I hate myself for trying to get a dig in at you. I sincerely hope you are the troll and I am really the trollee.

Ever yours.