Having a nightmare after GTD light swap to R headlights!

[JonBoyGTD]

Hi. I was wondering if someone could help me please. I have recently (within the last 2 hours) swapped the headlights in my MK7 June 2015 Golf GTD for a pair of brand new Golf Mk7 R headlights. The only difference I can see between my original lights and these new ones is that the Golf R lights have LED indicators and the extra "U shaped" LED DRL. My original lights were the type with xenon low and high beams, 1 x U shaped DRL and cornering lights.

The fitment of the Golf R headlights wasn't too much of a pain at all really but now I have them fitted it appears I have lost my main (high) beam function and I have a warning message on the dash regarding a fault with the cornering lighting. The surprise to me was that the LED indicators didn't cause any lamp out warnings on the dash even though my original indicators were regular incandescent lamps?

Is there an easy fix to this does anyone know (DV52?). I would like to thank DV52 for the brilliant document he produced on the lighting control and function settings, it has proved invaluable to me but I can't see how to solve this little predicament I'm in!

I'm nervous that my headlights maybe stuck in high beam and not that I've lost it altogether.

My original headlights had 3 control modules bolted to the underside of each headlight, the new Golf R headlights had 4 modules. I assumed that the extra module on each headlight was for controlling the extra DRL.

I live in the UK and got the Golf R headlights off a UK EBay seller who stipulated they were suitable only for UK Righthand drive vehicles.

I'm loving the double "U" DRL's and the LED indicators but these other problems may force me to change back to my original lights if I can't find a solution. I can't think why I should lose a main (high) beam function when that particular aspect of the headlights is common to both pairs of headlights?

One difference I observed between the two sets is that my original headlights had 12 pins where the wiring loom plug attaches (with pin 4 - when counting from left to right) missing and the Golf R headlights had only 11 pins (also with the same pin 4 missing).

I have VCDS so I'm going to go and see if I can work anything out using DV52's document as a reference. I'm hoping that telling the central electronics module that the car doesn't have cornering lights will solve the cornering light warning message issue. As for the loss of high beam (or permanent high beam - I'm still not sure which) I have absolutely no idea at all!).

Sorry for rambling on, I just wanted to try and get as much info over as possible to aid in potential diagnosis and hopefully solution!

Thank you.

Jon.

[DV52]

Hi. I was wondering if someone could help me please. I have recently (within the last 2 hours) swapped the headlights in my MK7 June 2015 Golf GTD for a pair of brand new Golf Mk7 R headlights. The only difference I can see between my original lights and these new ones is that the Golf R lights have LED indicators and the extra "U shaped" LED DRL. My original lights were the type with xenon low and high beams, 1 x U shaped DRL and cornering lights.

One difference I observed between the two sets is that my original headlights had 12 pins where the wiring loom plug attaches (with pin 4 - when counting from left to right) missing and the Golf R headlights had only 11 pins (also with the same pin 4 missing).

Jon.

Jon: First thanks for the many kind words and what an interesting project!!

I'm not sure that a VCDS cable solution is appropriate for your problem. I've had a look at the wiring diagram for the 11 and 12 pin versions of the Xenon headlight fittings and I suspect that the issues lie with the way the wiring is configured.

The wiring arrangement for the Xenon lamps is spread across a number of pages in VW's wiring diagrams, but I've cut-and-pasted bits of the relevant ciruits to make the diagram below which shows a side-by-side comparison of the 11 and 12 pin configuration:



As you can see, the configuration between the two fittings (from an OEM perspective) are different. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but you might need a cross wiring loom as a remedy. Try the following:

• change P13 to P10 - Pin10, socket B on the BCM is the side marker
• change P14 to Pin8 - Pin39, socket B on the BCM (J519) is the main-beam,
• run wire from P4 to fuse #37 (for both left & right side fittings).

For the cornering lights - try removing Pin3 (P4 has been removed as above and now becomes the fuse wire) from the connector (i.e. just leave the CAN high and CAN low lines connected from P1 and P2)
Don

[JonBoyGTD]

Hi Don,

Thanks a lot for the reply, very much appreciated. Sorry for not acknowledging your reply sooner, I kept checking back but thought no one was going to have a stab at it, it is a bit of a daft thing I've done I suppose! I didn't expect you to include anything as detailed as the circuit diagrams, thank you for the effort that must've taken. I have some other info that might help in the diagnosis.

A few updates since my last post:

I've had the car out for a few drives in the dark and I'm convinced that it is definitely low beam that the headlights are putting out as I haven't been flashed by any other drivers on the road. The fact that the car is drivable at night has somewhat taken away the urgency to get the headlights working 100% correctly and also my eagerness to reinstall the original headlights.

I have visited a friend who has a MY2014 Golf R. I spent the best part of 2 hours copying all his Lighting Configuration settings and all the Leuchte channel settings. I noticed that 2 of his settings were different to mine, Lasttyp 4 and Lasttyp 5. His Golf R was set to "6 - LED Lichtmodul" at Lasttyp's 4 & 5 where as my GTD was set to "1 - LED Tagfahrlichtmodul Versorgung". Long story short, I managed to apply these settings to my car and they made things worse so I reverted back to my original settings.

After doing some blind fiddling with VCDS I have managed to get every function except the Main (High) Beam function working. The cornering lights and the range control seemed to be happy after I ran the "basic" setup commands inside Controller 55 via VCDS. I was given a bit of inspiration when I noticed that one of the faults VCDS was throwing up was something about the headlights not being calibrated, I remembered having to do something similar after I had the headlights out of a MK6 GTD.

So, everything on the headlights is now working apart from the Main (High) Beam. When I run a scan of the Central Electronics I get 2 faults generated (I currently have no faults on the dash, these can only be seen with VCDS):

Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 5Q0-937-08X-HV1.clb
Control Module Part Number: 5Q0 937 084 AJ HW: 5Q0 937 084 AJ
Component and/or Version: BCM MQBAB H H18 0137
Software Coding: 03000A42C24122F30BA44080B10C0728100000000000000000 0000000000
Work Shop Code: WSC 01357 011 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_BCMCONTI 013000 (VW37)
ROD: EV_BCMBOSCH_AU37.rod
VCID: 000BCD678323223E71-8054
2 Faults Found:


7690 - Reflector Actuator for Left Low Beam Headlamp
B121B 15 [009] - Open or Short to Plus
Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 226
Mileage: 9559 km
Date: 2016.04.03
Time: 14:42:32


7946 - Reflector Actuator for Right Low Beam Headlamp
B121C 15 [009] - Open or Short to Plus
Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 226
Mileage: 9559 km
Date: 2016.04.03
Time: 14:42:32


I don't know if this will help any potential remedy to the problem I'm having but thought it was worth including.

I must also mention that I do get a couple of faults up on the dash (clocks display) when I try to use Main Beam. If I keep the indicator stalk pulled back or pushed forward for a few seconds I get 2 messages telling me to check Right Main Beam Lamp and Left Main Beam Lamp. These messages go after the ignition is turned off and back on and do not return unless I try to use Main Beam again.

In light of what I've posted here Don, does this change any of your original ideas about where to swap wires to and from?

When you mentioned the moving of wires in your last post did you mean at the plug that goes into the back of each headlamp or at a different place please? I'm only asking because of you mentioning the BCM.

Thanks again for the reply Don, I really do appreciate it as I'm more than stumped with this one!

Just as an aside to all this, I tried to change some values in the Lighting Configuration settings on my car (when I was trying to get my car to accept the same settings as my mate's Golf R) and I kept getting error messages back from VCDS saying "Message length too long or value out of range" - words to that effect anyway. I was about to give up but then managed to get the settings changed inside the Leuchte channels. When I looked back at the Configuration channels they had changed to the same settings as the Leuchte channels that I had just modded to match that of my mate's Golf R. I had it in my head that the Configuration channels were where all the settings should be changed and that the Leuchte channels would follow suit after the changes in Configuration. I apologise for my poor explanation, I really do find it difficult to get into words exactly what I'm trying to say!

One thing I did note about all the settings from my mate's Golf R, they all had the same Lampendefekt bit position & Byte DTC-DFCC values as mine. This did give me a small ray of hope that changing my settings to the same as his would help, unfortunately it didn't.

Jon.

[DV52]

A few updates since my last post:

I have visited a friend who has a MY2014 Golf R. I spent the best part of 2 hours copying all his Lighting Configuration settings and all the Leuchte channel settings. I noticed that 2 of his settings were different to mine, Lasttyp 4 and Lasttyp 5. His Golf R was set to "6 - LED Lichtmodul" at Lasttyp's 4 & 5 where as my GTD was set to "1 - LED Tagfahrlichtmodul Versorgung". Long story short, I managed to apply these settings to my car and they made things worse so I reverted back to my original settings.

Jon: unlikely that changing these Leuchte channels will help with your substantive problem as these Leuchte-sets relate to the left side and right side DRLs (I think they are the Leuchte-sets for the left/right inner dots)

After doing some blind fiddling with VCDS I have managed to get every function except the Main (High) Beam function working. The cornering lights and the range control seemed to be happy after I ran the "basic" setup commands inside Controller 55 via VCDS. I was given a bit of inspiration when I noticed that one of the faults VCDS was throwing up was something about the headlights not being calibrated, I remembered having to do something similar after I had the headlights out of a MK6 GTD.

So, everything on the headlights is now working apart from the Main (High) Beam. When I run a scan of the Central Electronics I get 2 faults generated (I currently have no faults on the dash, these can only be seen with VCDS):

Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 5Q0-937-08X-HV1.clb
Control Module Part Number: 5Q0 937 084 AJ HW: 5Q0 937 084 AJ
Component and/or Version: BCM MQBAB H H18 0137
Software Coding: 03000A42C24122F30BA44080B10C0728100000000000000000 0000000000
Work Shop Code: WSC 01357 011 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_BCMCONTI 013000 (VW37)
ROD: EV_BCMBOSCH_AU37.rod
VCID: 000BCD678323223E71-8054
2 Faults Found:


7690 - Reflector Actuator for Left Low Beam Headlamp
B121B 15 [009] - Open or Short to Plus
Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 226
Mileage: 9559 km
Date: 2016.04.03
Time: 14:42:32


7946 - Reflector Actuator for Right Low Beam Headlamp
B121C 15 [009] - Open or Short to Plus
Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 226
Mileage: 9559 km
Date: 2016.04.03
Time: 14:42:32


I don't know if this will help any potential remedy to the problem I'm having but thought it was worth including.

Jon: The interesting aspect of these DTCs is that they both have a fault frequency of "1" which suggests that the fault hasn't appear again in a subsequent ignition turn-on cycle. Why not just Clear ALL DTCs and see if anything re-appears?

I must also mention that I do get a couple of faults up on the dash (clocks display) when I try to use Main Beam. If I keep the indicator stalk pulled back or pushed forward for a few seconds I get 2 messages telling me to check Right Main Beam Lamp and Left Main Beam Lamp. These messages go after the ignition is turned off and back on and do not return unless I try to use Main Beam again.

In light of what I've posted here Don, does this change any of your original ideas about where to swap wires to and from?

Jon: Clearly, there is something odd happening with the high-beam/Main-beam function. I don't believe that it's a coincidence that the wiring diagrams that I posted suggest that the main-beam pins are in a different position on the 11-pin connector and the main-beam problems that you are having. Cycling the ignition clearly re-sets the error messages, but it sounds like the underlying problem is still there (alas)

When you mentioned the moving of wires in your last post did you mean at the plug that goes into the back of each headlamp or at a different place please? I'm only asking because of you mentioning the BCM.

Jon: I mention the BCM (Body Control Module, or 09-Cent. Electr. in VCDS speak) because this is the originating device for the wires that eventually end-up on the 11/12 Pin connector! Yes, the place to make the change is at the plug at the rear of the each headlight (or you could make-up a loom -if you want). Please be aware, that I haven't actually done this modification - it therefore remains entirely untested AFAIK (I purely make the suggestion as a consequence of reading the wiring diagrams)

Just as an aside to all this, I tried to change some values in the Lighting Configuration settings on my car (when I was trying to get my car to accept the same settings as my mate's Golf R) and I kept getting error messages back from VCDS saying "Message length too long or value out of range" - words to that effect anyway. I was about to give up but then managed to get the settings changed inside the Leuchte channels. When I looked back at the Configuration channels they had changed to the same settings as the Leuchte channels that I had just modded to match that of my mate's Golf R. I had it in my head that the Configuration channels were where all the settings should be changed and that the Leuchte channels would follow suit after the changes in Configuration.

Jon: I wrote a short few paragraphs on the role of the "Lighting configuration" channels in my paper on Leuchte programming (which you can find in the VCDS reference thread). These mysterious banks of 665 x adaptation channels appear to be a slave channels to their twin Leuchte channels. In my diatribe, I describe two sorts of Lighting configuration channels: Closely correlated and uncorrelated channels. I believe that the closely correlated channels somehow set-up the power supply control modules in the headlight assemblies (but this is purely a guess). As you have observed, the Lighting configuration channel settings can't be changed with a VCDS cable, but the closely correlated Lighting configuration channels do change as a consequence of altering the setting in their twin Leuchte channel. I've found that the settings for the uncorrelated Lighting configuration channels aren't stable and they often change with successive polling with a VCDS cable - go figure!!

One thing I did note about all the settings from my mate's Golf R, they all had the same Lampendefekt bit position & Byte DTC-DFCC values as mine. This did give me a small ray of hope that changing my settings to the same as his would help, unfortunately it didn't.

Jon: We should always get our "hope" from where-ever we can, but I've generally found that the Lampendefekt bit position & Byte DTC-DFCC settings are the same across all mk7 models (with a few notable exceptions when comparing RoW and NAR model vehicles).

In my Leuchte programming paper, my hypothesis is that the settings in these two channels are actually memory location addresses (my guess) for the results of the lamp monitoring functions. My contention is based on the observation that in any car, the setting value of a particular lamp only appears once in the entire suite of Leuchte channels. As I said, just an hypothesis - happy to hear other explanations

[JonBoyGTD]

Don, thank you for yet another great reply and for the advice towards solving the problem I'm having.

Looking at the 2 wiring diagrams you posted previously, there are a lot more differences between 11 and 12 pin headlight wiring than I expected. I really don't know why VW would have gone to the expense of such different wiring looms just to accommodate double DRL's and LED indicators. Ours is not to reason why I suppose.

I may end up just putting the original lights back in. I've gained the experience of removing the bumper and lights so it shouldn't be too much hassle. I hate to give up and admit defeat but it appears that I just don't have the type of supplies these Golf R headlights require easily configurable from the wiring of the GTD. I'm tempted to call at the Dealership and have a chat about it but I don't think it will be something that they would be willing to undertake really. I imagine that even a local auto electrician wouldn't be anywhere near as clued up on this stuff as yourself or other VW enthusiasts.

In the wiring diagram for the 11 pin headlight, do you think (know) if the P1+/P1- and P2+/P2- are the 2 different circuits for 'Low Beam' and 'High Beam' or is that me being too simplistic and over hopeful? The 12 pin diagram has the 2 Can wires in this position so if this is the case then clearly I'm a long way from having suitable wiring to control the R headlights correctly and safely.

Buying a couple of loom adapters and trying different configurations that way is a great idea, I may give that a go if my enthusiasm stays high enough for this project.

Thanks once again for your advice and taking the time & effort to reply. Appreciated as always Don.

Jon.

[DV52]

In the wiring diagram for the 11 pin headlight, do you think (know) if the P1+/P1- and P2+/P2- are the 2 different circuits for 'Low Beam' and 'High Beam' or is that me being too simplistic and over hopeful? The 12 pin diagram has the 2 Can wires in this position so if this is the case then clearly I'm a long way from having suitable wiring to control the R headlights correctly and safely.
Jon.

Jon: Sorry, I'm not sure what P1+/P!-, P2+/P2- are on the connector, but they are clearly part of V45 which Headlight range control motor. These pins can't be related to Low/High beam because all of the control signals for the actual lamps are sourced from the BCM (i.e. J519). Here are the Pin-out descriptions for the relevant BCM pins in the 12 pin connector showing which pin does what (for the left-side):



Don

[JonBoyGTD]

Thanks again Don. That table of pin designations you included certainly makes a few things clear. If you don't mind me asking, which book or document are they taken from please? It could be worth me trying to get a copy myself and see if I can figure something out.

Very close to just fitting the original headlights back in and having a good think about this one.

A recent house fire (nothing too serious but very easily could've been) has caused me to have a few #yolo moments and I've been looking at an advert for an Audi RS3! I couldn't afford to run it in all honesty but it's a nice thought though.

Thanks again Don.

Jon.

[DV52]

Thanks again Don. That table of pin designations you included certainly makes a few things clear. If you don't mind me asking, which book or document are they taken from please? It could be worth me trying to get a copy myself and see if I can figure something out.

Very close to just fitting the original headlights back in and having a good think about this one.

A recent house fire (nothing too serious but very easily could've been) has caused me to have a few #yolo moments and I've been looking at an advert for an Audi RS3! I couldn't afford to run it in all honesty but it's a nice thought though.

Thanks again Don.

Jon.

Jon: Life for a mk7 Golf owner in the UK certainly does sound like it's exciting (the kind of excitement that you could probably do without)!

As to your question about equipment information for the mk7, the best place is https://erwin.vw.com/

It's a pay-for-service site, but the fee is modest and you will need to register as a member. Not sure, but I think it is somewhere around 7 euros for one hour access - which should be more than enough for your purpose.

If you use the site, a bit of advice: don't search on-line for the information that you want - instead concentrate solely on downloading as much as you can within the paid access time. Once you have the material on your PC/laptop, you can search for the information locally at your leisure
Good Luck
Don

[JonBoyGTD]

Hi Don, I stumbled across the erwin site when looking for mk7 headlight related material and noticed that the rate was €7 per hour of usage which I thought was quite fair. This maybe an avenue that I go down at later date. If the weather holds up today I think the original headlights will be getting refitted. I hate to admit defeat but I'd rather have a set of fully working headlights installed and then continue looking for a solution to getting the R headlights to work.

Thank you for all the effort, advice and information you have imparted, it is very much appreciated.

I think the only thing left for me to tinker with now will be the rear light mod that makes the inner and outer indicators blink out of phase with each other. It looks quite good and a little more eye catching than the regular in phase blink.

Thanks Don.

Jon.

[JonBoyGTD]

Another update and a correction to my initial observation about the Golf R headlights:

I have refitted the original GTD headlights today (between showers!). They worked instantly with nothing to tweak in the settings etc.

Now then, my initial observation that my GTD headlights had 12 pins and the R headlights had 11 pins is in fact incorrect! Sorry. The GTD headlights have 11 pins and the Golf R headlights have 10 pins.

I didn't want to waste too much time, due to the weather situation, so I never managed to make a record of the wiring colours and positions in my loom. I did notice though that the two wires going to the top two pins of the headlight plug were Brown & striped as the Can two were in the 12 pin diagram. I suppose it depends how you choose to count the pins in the headlight. The Golf R headlights physically have 10 pins present in their socket and the GTD headlights have 11. This is only because pin 4 is missing from both and pin 12 is also missing from the R headlights. There is room in both sockets to have a pin at positions 13 & 14 but neither set of lights has.

Does this 11 pin vs 10 pin discovery change anything Don do you think? Might the 2 sets of headlights be closer related (from a wiring point of view) than first thought?

Another interesting fact is that the GTD headlights have the words "Single LED" embossed into the rear body of the headlight module. I fully expected to see "Double or Dual LED" on the Golf R headlight modules but instead they also stated "Single LED" on them?

It's all very confusing.

Jon.