Golf Alltrack

[agentthumb]

I honestly think that the notion of AWD being safer or more secure is a furphy - particularly so when we're talking the Haldex system as used in the Alltrack and other MQB-platform cars. The system is usually 100% FWD and only directs drive rearward (and only a maximum of 50% torque may be sent to the rear) when the system detects front wheelspin. So under braking, or off-throttle the car is 100% FWD.

The traction control system in these cars is also quite quick and effective (and the Octavia RS has the XDS electronic differential lock), so even an extremely ham-fisted driver who decides to floor the throttle, in the wet and with a significant amount of steering lock on, is only going to get a limited amount of understeer before the TC, XDS and ESP rein things in.

The Haldex system is great for getting a quick launch in, or for extra powerdown in the wet when pushing on (particularly in high powered cars). But it doesn't deliver bulk safety benefits. I have a Haldex AWD Audi S3 and my mother drives an Octavia RS wagon; the RS feels every bit as secure in the wet unless you're intentionally being a clown.

This! Plus, I would have thought it would be good to teach a beginner how to properly control wheel spin, understeer and oversteer in different driving conditions (under supervision of course) rather then just getting them across the line passing the driving exam, but are clueless the moment they get into their own car? Which if budget is an issue, is most likely to be FWD with basic to no electronic driving aids?

Also, there is the extra maintenance cost of the AWD system. Haldex oil is expensive and needs to be replaced fairly often.

[Why?]

I have owned several STi's and even an old RS Turbo back in the early 90's and an A6 Quattro with the 4.2 V8, I currently drive a 500Plus horsepower VF and I miss having all wheel drive especially in the wet. The Alltrack if i get it will be modified. The Skoda would also be modified. The girls will also be driving my Herrod modified XR6 Ute. They will eventually purchase there own cars and like my son spend the the last 3 or 4 months prior to getting their licences driving them. They won't be just getting across the line.

I for the record hate driving aids and have all of them that I can turned off in my car. I will not be optioning either of the cars with any driving aid options.

[agentthumb]

Was not having a go at you. But your post did imply you wanted AWD for extra safety because your girls are learning.

Do you also turn off ESC and Traction control when just driving around? How about ABS? Would you opt not to have it if possible?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Why?]

Was not having a go at you. But your post did imply you wanted AWD for extra safety because your girls are learning.

Do you also turn off ESC and Traction control when just driving around? How about ABS? Would you opt not to have it if possible?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I turn off everything when doing track days, ABS is a pain but great for day to day driving especially for in experienced drivers. ESC I leave on but really not fussed. What I have turned off permanently on my car are the lane departure, forward collision and all the bloody parking sensors. If I'm wanting to just have some fun I put it in track mode (Gives me launch control, limits ESC and firms up steering).

Yes I did imply the for extra safety because the girls are learning and as we live inner city and almost all the roads have tram tracks I think its an advantage in the wet. In the dry there is really no difference.

[AdamD]

I have owned several STi's and even an old RS Turbo back in the early 90's and an A6 Quattro with the 4.2 V8, I currently drive a 500Plus horsepower VF and I miss having all wheel drive especially in the wet. The Alltrack if i get it will be modified. The Skoda would also be modified.

The Haldex AWD is quite different to the systems in the Subarus and the A6, which are far more mechanical and apportion drive to the rear full-time. Those will genuinely give you extra stability under engine braking etc - unlike the Haldex system, which really is only on-demand, and only to a limited degree. It's also possible to get momentary front-wheel wheelspin under certain conditions, because just like ESP, the Haldex relies on sensors before it reacts.

There are only so many modifications you'll be able to make to an Allroad for performance - it's certainly never going to get to the point where it'd be a handful for even a relatively inexperienced driver unless you're prepared to make substantial changes. The Octavia is a different story - the 2.0 TSI has room for upwards of 250fwkw on the stock turbo if you're keen - but it'll still remain easily controllable in the wet with a bit of prudence - certainly much, much easier to drive than a big-power ute with no weight over the rear wheels, which can be a real handful.

Also bear in mind that you won't be able to fully disable the ESP in any of these cars. Traction control can be disabled, sure, but you won't get any kind of oversteer shenanigans going with any of these cars, without very creative provocation.

[Why?]

The Haldex AWD is quite different to the systems in the Subarus and the A6, which are far more mechanical and apportion drive to the rear full-time. Those will genuinely give you extra stability under engine braking etc - unlike the Haldex system, which really is only on-demand, and only to a limited degree. It's also possible to get momentary front-wheel wheelspin under certain conditions, because just like ESP, the Haldex relies on sensors before it reacts.

There are only so many modifications you'll be able to make to an Allroad for performance - it's certainly never going to get to the point where it'd be a handful for even a relatively inexperienced driver unless you're prepared to make substantial changes. The Octavia is a different story - the 2.0 TSI has room for upwards of 250fwkw on the stock turbo if you're keen - but it'll still remain easily controllable in the wet with a bit of prudence - certainly much, much easier to drive than a big-power ute with no weight over the rear wheels, which can be a real handful.

Also bear in mind that you won't be able to fully disable the ESP in any of these cars. Traction control can be disabled, sure, but you won't get any kind of oversteer shenanigans going with any of these cars, without very creative provocation.

You learn something new everyday. I'm still waiting on Skoda to give me a price on the Skoda with 19inch black pack and towbar, I enjoyed driving the Skoda, I'll wait for then to decide. My heart say's the RS but my brain the Alltrack.

Maybe I should have done some more reading up on the AWD system I just assumed they would be similar.

[Bayman]

AWD Haldex Oil expensive? My Tiguan only has it replaced every 60,000kms - not a big issue in maintenance cost as I see it. Also tyre wear is much more even in Tiguan than the two FWD golfs we have.

[murcod]

The Haldex AWD is quite different to the systems in the Subarus and the A6, which are far more mechanical and apportion drive to the rear full-time. Those will genuinely give you extra stability under engine braking etc - unlike the Haldex system, which really is only on-demand, and only to a limited degree. It's also possible to get momentary front-wheel wheelspin under certain conditions, because just like ESP, the Haldex relies on sensors before it reacts.

That's interesting. I was under the impression the TF Kuga system was very similar, however Ford apparently updated it from the earlier TE (which I think did use the Haldex system?)

I can get a display up on the instruments which shows the torque division being sent to each wheel. It is actually sending torque to the rear wheels even with no traction loss from the front. Taking off I've even seen more torque to the rear than front wheels. The torque to the rear drops off as speed increases until it appears to switch to FWD only.

I'm still running it in, but have noticed it grips well (with no front end traction loss) when turning on wet bitumen. The same corners would have my FWD Kizashi's traction light flickering and obvious wheel spin.

[VicLes]

Admin, please relocate correct thread, otherwise here I go.

Just taken delivery of the new golf alltrack. Thinking of taking it to the snow this winter. Need some advise as to which snow chains would be suitable since seems to be minimal clearance between front tyres and suspension components. Would any 7mm or 9mm chains be okay? or need to get the expensive Thule K-Summit type. Any advise is appreciated.

Cheers,
Vic

[brad]

Admin, please relocate correct thread, otherwise here I go.

Just taken delivery of the new golf alltrack. Thinking of taking it to the snow this winter. Need some advise as to which snow chains would be suitable since seems to be minimal clearance between front tyres and suspension components. Would any 7mm or 9mm chains be okay? or need to get the expensive Thule K-Summit type. Any advise is appreciated.

Cheers,
Vic

I think you'll find a lot is covered in the manual.

In the back of my mind, VW only recomend chains on 205 section tyres.

You might have to buy a set of cheapies or fit some hub spacers.

The best place to ask is one of the UK or Euro based forums. Even have a look at what Skoda Scout owners do.