Golf 40th vs Golf R

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Originally Posted by Dutch77

It's fair to say I am a bit of a wheel guy, and yes VW Australia has blessed us with Cadiz instead of Pretoria on the R (except for a run of 'Wolfsburg' badged cars that had black Pretorias fitted) and now the Ruby/Brescia instead of the much better Belvedere.

I concur that the Belvedere is made by Fuchs and is listed at 7.6kg - so that wheel is perfect for the car and yeah, it is growing on me now. A private import would cost up at $4,500-$5,000 AUD so that is never going to happen here.

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Yeah the Pretoria's in silver would be my pick (I've got them in black, on my Wolfsburg). I bought some 'light weight' wheels for track days, which are actually heavier than the Pretorias! They are an awesome wheel!

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/foru...id=24077&stc=1

On topic of the 40th versus R thing - I've owned a MK6 GTI (modified), and obviously the 7R above (which is also modified). The nimbleness of the GTI is the key here. The R is definitely sure-footed, but it feels weighty compared to the more 'chuckable' GTI. The clubsport/40th would be another league again with its tighter suspension and other bits.

That said, I disagree about traction not being an issue with the 40th anniversary. If you're keeping the car stock it might be fine, but if you're modifying at all, you WILL have traction issues. The LSD is great for corner exits, but you're going to be breaking traction in slower corners with BOTH wheels (LSD is irrelevant here!) when you increase the torque with an ECU tune or similar. By comparison in the R, often you can mash the throttle before the apex and it will just pull you tighter into the corner and lay down 100% torque on corner exit. That is massively confidence inspiring, and I find myself actually pushing a lot harder in the R, where I would be much more tentative in the GTI. Personally I enjoy being able to push harder (read: faster) in the R, over the fact that the GTI was more nimble. That's just my personal preference and driving style. It's really your own style which will decide which is more enjoyable to you.

As someone else mentioned, test driving a PP will be similar in feel to the 40th. Though I doubt you'll be pushing hard enough in a test drive to show the true differences between the 40th and the R. Good luck with the choice though mate - they are both killer cars! :)

^nailed it.

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Originally Posted by sooty

^nailed it.

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Seconded!

I love my R and the way it corners. Yes, it does feel heavier on turn-in and can be a bit harder to settle down but on the apex it's mighty. It really is a slow-in, fast-out car.

The only thing that would have stopped me buying the R is the PP with a manual 'box. Same for the Wolfie R (where I would have gained the Pretorias and the blue paint).

A manual 'box is crucial for engagement IMO and the DSG GTI & R left me flat.


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Originally Posted by Mattlock

A manual 'box is crucial for engagement IMO and the DSG GTI & R left me flat.

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See I used to drive a Polo GTi and then before that it was a DC2 and I loved the manual box in that. However after driving the DSG I'm pro DSG now, reasons:

Awesome in traffic
Paddle shift option
Sports mode
Quicker shifting
Launch Control

I believe manual benefits in more engaging as you say, and obviously cheaper allround.

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Originally Posted by Primordial

Yeah the Pretoria's in silver would be my pick (I've got them in black, on my Wolfsburg). I bought some 'light weight' wheels for track days, which are actually heavier than the Pretorias! They are an awesome wheel!

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/foru...id=24077&stc=1

On topic of the 40th versus R thing - I've owned a MK6 GTI (modified), and obviously the 7R above (which is also modified). The nimbleness of the GTI is the key here. The R is definitely sure-footed, but it feels weighty compared to the more 'chuckable' GTI. The clubsport/40th would be another league again with its tighter suspension and other bits.

That said, I disagree about traction not being an issue with the 40th anniversary. If you're keeping the car stock it might be fine, but if you're modifying at all, you WILL have traction issues. The LSD is great for corner exits, but you're going to be breaking traction in slower corners with BOTH wheels (LSD is irrelevant here!) when you increase the torque with an ECU tune or similar. By comparison in the R, often you can mash the throttle before the apex and it will just pull you tighter into the corner and lay down 100% torque on corner exit. That is massively confidence inspiring, and I find myself actually pushing a lot harder in the R, where I would be much more tentative in the GTI. Personally I enjoy being able to push harder (read: faster) in the R, over the fact that the GTI was more nimble. That's just my personal preference and driving style. It's really your own style which will decide which is more enjoyable to you.

As someone else mentioned, test driving a PP will be similar in feel to the 40th. Though I doubt you'll be pushing hard enough in a test drive to show the true differences between the 40th and the R. Good luck with the choice though mate - they are both killer cars! :)

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Good points and it is true that there are probably going to be issues on slow corners if you request the entire 500 (remapped) Nm from a set of turned wheels a lot earlier than hitting the apex. That is if the OP is looking into remapping of-course. With stock torque of 350/380Nm it shouldn't be as much of a problem as the very similar Leon Cupra has proven so far.

But you shouldn't wait too long to floor it either, at least nowhere as long as you'd wait in the past. In fact the feed-back we've got from the most hard-core lsd-equipped MQB FWD variants like the Cupra and Clubsport is that they are nothing like the previous MK6 in terms of handling or anything like traditional FWD cars most of us where used to up to now. Not even the journalists have got their head round that yet. You still read how contrary to common belief these cars can corner. This was also my impression from the Cupra I test-drove (and I was about to order until the Clubsport was introduced). You could not honestly tell whether the car was FWD or not by the way it took corners, it was unbelievably smooth and neutral.

In fact most reviewers are recommending attacking the corners as much as your confidence permits, applying the throttle rather early and stay on it making the lsd to work in your favour and sling-shot you out of the corner. Surely the AWD will put 100% of the power down all the time, but on the Clubsport/Cupra you can benefit from a faster and more agile turn-in and corner entry, ultimately carrying more speed for more time around the corner which means you don't need to make up for such a big drop in speed as you need to do with the R for example. And in the end, in a series of close bends this will make a difference.

One downside is that you need to be prepared to be involved and push the car more to actually benefit from this behaviour which is not the typical approach of: braking, turning and just slamming the throttle hoping the car can indeed put the power down, but it is also a more rewarding and ultimately more efficient process. So I guess it's again back to driving style, preferences and priorities.

The following video of a Clubsport chasing an R at the Portimao track is rather indicative of how more composed and able to keep tighter lines the Clubsport is compared to the R:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLr...ArU8tY&index=2

Good write up, I've seen this video plenty of times. It's the only video that has the two cars to compare.

Man decisions, I think by far the Clubsport would be such a better driving experience. More of that go-kart type experience as compared to a golf kart haha. Man I really want to drive one. It'll probably win my heart over

There's two very distinct avenues here. One is comparing performance and one is comparing the value, looks and bang for buck. For someone who is not going to ever track the car, the most engagement I'm going to get is street driving.

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From the looks of that video there ain't much in it . The clubsport was never going to get past the R though.

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Originally Posted by dempsey

From the looks of that video there ain't much in it . The clubsport was never going to get past the R though.

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Yeah I know it didn't really seem to push through, but did keep up. However each driver might say their experience we very different.


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The guy in the Clubsport was using a lot more kerb to stay with the R.

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Originally Posted by Bora Sport

The guy in the Clubsport was using a lot more kerb to stay with the R.

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Yeah he was and at times the R was a little too wide and coming into the corner is struggled. Can't see the CS from outside tho. Pitty it isn't s full video.


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