Tyresome decisions

[Martin]

I've just worn out my Goodyear F1A2 at 53k (including 2 track days) - this is the 225/40/18 size
The left tyre is below 1.5mm tread due to charging at roundabouts, the right tire has 2mm tread
If I had monitored them better and switched them side to side I would have more mileage out of them

They are a wonderful sports tyre, great traction and braking
They have a stiff sidewall which provides awesome turn in feel and response

The down side is the are noisier than the Michelin PS3

Next tyre pair going onto the front are the Michelin PSS
(Got them on sale in the USA when the exchange rate was 1:1 - landed price was 60% of Oz price)

[tigger73]

I've just worn out my Goodyear F1A2 at 53k (including 2 track days)

That is some pretty decent mileage for a performance tyre!

[k_rider]

"switched them side to side"

What's the advice on switching radial tyres side to side these days?

It was common wisdom years ago that radial tyres should only ever be swapped front to back (and vice versa) but never side to side, as this reversed the tyre's rotational direction. The reasoning had something to do with if the tyre started life rotating one way, the belts would 'bed in' accordingly. Reversing the rotation at some later stage would then "over-stress" the belts leading to premature tyre failure. True or not true?

[brad]

What's the advice on switching radial tyres side to side these days?

It was common wisdom years ago that radial tyres should only ever be swapped front to back (and vice versa) but never side to side, as this reversed the tyre's rotational direction. The reasoning had something to do with if the tyre started life rotating one way, the belts would 'bed in' accordingly. Reversing the rotation at some later stage would then "over-stress" the belts leading to premature tyre failure. True or not true?

What you say is "kind-of" true.

The old Dunlop Aquajets & Goodyear Supersteels were shockers for delaminating if you changed the direction of rotation.

The Dunlops did it because they were rubbish (there's no other term to describe it). The Goodyears did it because of poor manufacture practices in some fairly outdated Australian factories (American owners didn't like spending money locally, just like Holden / Ford / Chrysler). Part of the issue was that the wire didn't bond to the rubber properly due to poor cleaning techniques & the wire also wasn't coated properly, so it would rust (poor techniques).

I worked at Goodyear Hurstville in the 80s and must have done warranty claims on a few thousand tyres - sometimes we changed tyres free of charge without the customer even asking.

I cross-rotate my tyres every 10,000km. Ideally the lazy axle goes straight to the drive axle & the drive tyres get swapped diagonally to the lazy axle. This allows the "set" in the tyre to relax back to the as-built state.

Because the drive tyres wear at a greater rate than the lazy axle this conflicts with the tyre manufacturers other recommendation for FWD that the tyres with the best tread go on the rear, so it's a bit of a juggling act. Generally I just wait until the drive axle is 2-3mm less than the lazy axle (about 10,000km for me) & rotate them then. It's not ideal but works for me.

Martin's swap side-to-side isn't an ideal solution as the tyres are remaining on the drive axles but I doubt it will cause issues.

[Martin]

That is some pretty decent mileage for a performance tyre!

Indeed! Surprised me for sure
They have not been favored, many more disciplined motorists would get more out of them

[Martin]

Interesting tyre history Brad!

What's the advice on switching radial tyres side to side these days?

It's more than switching radials, these are directional tyres with an asymmetric tread
Due to a mistake at the end of a track day I ran the front tyres on the wrong side for 5k - only noticed during a visual inspection

Most of the guys racing Mazda MX5's using R rated semi slicks (which are directional) intentionally swap sides trying to milk the most out of a set - no problems

With regard to tyre rotation on FWD I have been running a different strategy for the last 3~4 years
Rotating the tyres wears out the entire set
So I leave the rears alone, they are good for over 80k
I go through two sets on the front to one set on the rear
So I use 6 tires in a similar time/distance to using 8 with regular rotation around the car
You do have inspect the tyres and make sure you don't have alignment problem - but we should be going that anyway
(My habit of charging at roundabouts puts a little pressure on this strategy creating the need to balance front wear side to side)

[Martin]

After working on the brakes of my wife's Mazda 3 yesterday I now have to take back my comments about "charging at roundabouts"
I discovered that my wife (who is a very timid driver) has also worn the left tire more than the right tire
2~3 years of traversing 3 roundabouts seems to take it's toll on the left front (of FWD cars at least)

[woofy]

I've always been under the impression in FWD cars that the better tread tyres go on the front, ie the driving axle? Certainly the car dealers swap them around that way, ie Mazda, Hyundai, Skoda/Audi that I deal regularly with. The only thing Hyundai didn't do that they themselves say, was swap the spare out into the mix as it's the same wheel. Too late now.

[brad]

No, better tyres on the rear for FWD. In short, it's because the average driver can control under-steer better than over-steer.

Interestingly, due to the "illusory superiority" effect, 70-80% of drivers (varies with country of survey) claim to be better than average. (ref: Comparative Perceptions of Driver Ability - A Conformation and Expansion. McCormick / Walkey / Green).

I believe the Kiwi's first noted an issue with the influx of used grey import FWD Japanese cars back in the 70s. There was a quantum increase in single vehicle accidents (the fact that the jap cars were twice as quick as all the Pommie crap they were used to didn't help either). One of the contributing factors was that the rear tyres had a tendency to skid (on gravel / course chip) or aquaplane in the wet. This was partly due to the habit of fitting the best tyres on the steer/drive tyres (it makes sense for the axle that does the most work to get the best tyre) and partly due to the aging of the tyres (some rear tyres that had never been rotated looked OK but were 8-10 years old) and partly due to some really crap drivers that couldn't transition from Wolseley 24/80s to Mitsubishi Mirages.

I think this article says it best where the "expert" says that the idea of "fit the best tyres to the rear or you will die" is probably a bit extreme.

As I said, I try & do it but it is near impossible if you rotate your tyres as well. The best you can do is try & keep the rears somewhere near the front.

[nat225]

so in effect, use the old tyres at the rears and grippy new tyres at the front = fwd conversion to rwd effect

should be good to help the car rotate during motorkhanas



Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk