4 wheel alignment

**gldgti** · 13-03-2012, 05:25 PM

Hi fellow skodites.

I've had my octy for about 25,000km now and since I bought it on 90,000 its had pretty bad road noise (as many of us complain about both here and overseas).

For me, I'm pretty patient so I've waited all this time to get the geometry checked because I wanted to get my ride height just right first (more on this later)

Anyway today I got a 4 wheel alignment at Pedders in Hornsby. I have dealt with these guys many times before - their work is good. They'd never seen an octavia before though, but since everything under there is golf 5 I wasnt too worried.

I spoke with them at length about the noise problem, and the uneven tyre wear evident on the inside of the rear tyres, and sure enough they found that the rear neg camber was too much by about 30min on one side and 50minutes on the other (wow) and worse than that, the tow was +ve on one side and -ve on the other making the car crab sideways slightly.

All of you skodites should be aware of a couple of things: The rear geometry is completely adjustable, and it probably needs doing.

My cars had a pretty easy life before I got it - lots of highway km and not a lot else. I'm sure the rear geometry had never been touched (or even measured) before today as the previous owner wasnt the sort to go chasing what many people would see as a minor issue.

Anyhow, the good news for me is that it was all easiliy adjusted to go to the most recent specs and despite the state of my tyres being worn unevenly, I could tell immediately that the noisiness has largely dissappeared.

From my point of view this is money well spent - so my recommendation is that if you havnt yet, take your car to a good wheel alignment shop and pay the extra money to get it done properly.

Happy skoder-ing

**KOOLIE** · 14-03-2012, 12:23 AM

Hi.
At last someone who's tackled the problem at source!!.
Iv'e been fine tuning the rear geometry on my pre facelift Vrs estate for a while and you are right it is tyre scrub that's the problem.
I drive VAG cars all day and i can tell you that the Golfs are no better. It's always been an issue with the multi link set up. Seat's are even worse!. Is your car an Rs or on 16'17" std rims. Strangely even the standard cars can be just as bad.
If it's any help to you i stripped my car to the bare bones and soundproofed the whole floorpan and under the arches last year and with the geometry changes iv'e been in noisier Audi's.
Do you have the read out's from the tracking as i'd be interested to see what they have set it to.
Cheers :

Originally Posted by gldgti

Hi fellow skodites.

I've had my octy for about 25,000km now and since I bought it on 90,000 its had pretty bad road noise (as many of us complain about both here and overseas).

For me, I'm pretty patient so I've waited all this time to get the geometry checked because I wanted to get my ride height just right first (more on this later)

Anyway today I got a 4 wheel alignment at Pedders in Hornsby. I have dealt with these guys many times before - their work is good. They'd never seen an octavia before though, but since everything under there is golf 5 I wasnt too worried.

I spoke with them at length about the noise problem, and the uneven tyre wear evident on the inside of the rear tyres, and sure enough they found that the rear neg camber was too much by about 30min on one side and 50minutes on the other (wow) and worse than that, the tow was +ve on one side and -ve on the other making the car crab sideways slightly.

All of you skodites should be aware of a couple of things: The rear geometry is completely adjustable, and it probably needs doing.

My cars had a pretty easy life before I got it - lots of highway km and not a lot else. I'm sure the rear geometry had never been touched (or even measured) before today as the previous owner wasnt the sort to go chasing what many people would see as a minor issue.

Anyhow, the good news for me is that it was all easiliy adjusted to go to the most recent specs and despite the state of my tyres being worn unevenly, I could tell immediately that the noisiness has largely dissappeared.

From my point of view this is money well spent - so my recommendation is that if you havnt yet, take your car to a good wheel alignment shop and pay the extra money to get it done properly.

Happy skoder-ing

**Transporter** · 14-03-2012, 06:54 AM

It could be useful to compare the data before and after, and also compare them to what is specified by Skoda.

**brad** · 14-03-2012, 09:16 AM

I'm convinced my dealer did a wheel alignment as part of the PD.

90,000km & it shows no uneven wear, tracks reasonably straight (showing a slight LH pull at the moment but the tyres need rotating).

Fully agree with all the words re: seeking specialist advice as dealerships just want to use the factory specs all the time. A work colleague has a BMW X5 and was only getting 20,000km out of the rear tyres because of inner edge wear due to the obvious -ve camber on the rear. The dealership said it was within spec. He took it to a specialist & they took some of the camber out & he claims that tyre wear has halved...... then he had to go to the dealer for some work & the dealer put the alignment back to factory specs again. I'm sure the -ve camber is needed when you are on a 180kmh curve on the autobahn but in Australia?

**gldgti** · 14-03-2012, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by KOOLIE

Hi.
At last someone who's tackled the problem at source!!.
Iv'e been fine tuning the rear geometry on my pre facelift Vrs estate for a while and you are right it is tyre scrub that's the problem.
I drive VAG cars all day and i can tell you that the Golfs are no better. It's always been an issue with the multi link set up. Seat's are even worse!. Is your car an Rs or on 16'17" std rims. Strangely even the standard cars can be just as bad.
If it's any help to you i stripped my car to the bare bones and soundproofed the whole floorpan and under the arches last year and with the geometry changes iv'e been in noisier Audi's.
Do you have the read out's from the tracking as i'd be interested to see what they have set it to.
Cheers :

My car is not an RS just a base model kombi. I have put 17x7.5 audi ronals on though, it was noisy before that with the standard 16" wheels.

here is the scan of the figures:

I found figures on briskoda about setting the camber to -50' rather than -1*30' but the guys were a bit dubious about using my "off the internet" figures - however they said to keep an eye on it (like i'd do anything else) and I can always bring it back in 1000km to have it checked again for free. If after then the noise is worse or back again I'll ask them to go to 50min.

**wfdTamar** · 15-03-2012, 08:15 AM

According to Elsawin (service manual) there are three types of Octavia suspensions (2UA - standard, 2UB - Rough Road (presumably Scout), 2UC - RS/Sport). They have different alignment figures. That code is on the sticker near the spare wheel (and in the service manual).

Front
Toe-in 2UA, 1degree 38' +-20'. 2UB 1degree 40' +-20'. 2UC 1degree 20' +-20'.
Camber 2UA, -30' +-30'. 2UB -41' +-30'. 2UC -8' +-30'.
Caster 2UA 7degrees 34' +-30'. 2UB 7degrees 47' +-30'. 2UC 7degrees 14' +-30'.

Rear
Camber (all except RS) -1degree20' +-30' (cars from Feb2005). RS -1degree 45' +-30'.

Some alignment places will say you can't adjust camber (front or rear) which is rubbish - they just don't know how to. It's all explained in the manual and isn't difficult. For the rear there is an eccentric bolt - turn the head of the bolt to adjust. For the front camber you loosen the lower bolts holding the suspension and move it side to side. The manual says to use new bolts (they must be the kind that stretch when torqued).

There is a technical product info note saying if you get uneven rear tyre wear to change the rear camber as mentioned in a post above. Caused by sawtooth wear mostly on 225/45/R17 Bridgestone and Dunlop tyres. Most noticeable at 40kmph. Can be confused with wheel bearing noise. Fix is to adjust camber to -50'-10' (max -1degree) for 2UA, 2UB, 2UC. -1degree 15'-5' (max -1degree 20') for RS. Total toe-in +10'-2'.

If you get this kind of wear and then rotate your tyres (putting the rears on front) it is very noisy and odd vibrations that make you think you have massive alignment problems. I had this then put the (unused) spare on the suspect wheel and it went away so it was only the sawtooth wear doing it.

**BluChris** · 15-03-2012, 12:51 PM

Ah yes, the beloved saw tooth wear. I'd never heard of it (or heard it) until I owned a VAG product. Wish I'd known earlier as I have 1 tyre in particular that mimics a failed wheel bearing especially well, and all 4 have some signs. Annoying since I still have good tread depth. These are the 15 inch standard rims, Dunlop SP Sport 01, so not only the larger wheels that are prone to it.

I did get an alignment but on advice in response to the noise issue, so too late to do anything about the tyre wear.

My original Skoda dealer never said a word about any of this, except than once the tyre was stuffed I should get rid of it to stop the noise. Really helpful, not. Dealer 2 knew it was a common issue and recommended annual 4 wheel alignment, as has current (VW) dealer that services the car.

So I strongly recommend anyone who hasn't had it done - get it done, even if your car is new and you think you "shouldn't" need it.

**KOOLIE** · 15-03-2012, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by gldgti

My car is not an RS just a base model kombi. I have put 17x7.5 audi ronals on though, it was noisy before that with the standard 16" wheels.

here is the scan of the figures:

I found figures on briskoda about setting the camber to -50' rather than -1*30' but the guys were a bit dubious about using my "off the internet" figures - however they said to keep an eye on it (like i'd do anything else) and I can always bring it back in 1000km to have it checked again for free. If after then the noise is worse or back again I'll ask them to go to 50min.

Thanks for that .
Ill keep you posted on progress with my car.

**gldgti** · 15-03-2012, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by wfdTamar

According to Elsawin (service manual) there are three types of Octavia suspensions (2UA - standard, 2UB - Rough Road (presumably Scout), 2UC - RS/Sport). They have different alignment figures. That code is on the sticker near the spare wheel (and in the service manual).

Front
Toe-in 2UA, 1degree 38' +-20'. 2UB 1degree 40' +-20'. 2UC 1degree 20' +-20'.
Camber 2UA, -30' +-30'. 2UB -41' +-30'. 2UC -8' +-30'.
Caster 2UA 7degrees 34' +-30'. 2UB 7degrees 47' +-30'. 2UC 7degrees 14' +-30'.

Rear
Camber (all except RS) -1degree20' +-30' (cars from Feb2005). RS -1degree 45' +-30'.

Some alignment places will say you can't adjust camber (front or rear) which is rubbish - they just don't know how to. It's all explained in the manual and isn't difficult. For the rear there is an eccentric bolt - turn the head of the bolt to adjust. For the front camber you loosen the lower bolts holding the suspension and move it side to side. The manual says to use new bolts (they must be the kind that stretch when torqued).

There is a technical product info note saying if you get uneven rear tyre wear to change the rear camber as mentioned in a post above. Caused by sawtooth wear mostly on 225/45/R17 Bridgestone and Dunlop tyres. Most noticeable at 40kmph. Can be confused with wheel bearing noise. Fix is to adjust camber to -50'-10' (max -1degree) for 2UA, 2UB, 2UC. -1degree 15'-5' (max -1degree 20') for RS. Total toe-in +10'-2'.

If you get this kind of wear and then rotate your tyres (putting the rears on front) it is very noisy and odd vibrations that make you think you have massive alignment problems. I had this then put the (unused) spare on the suspect wheel and it went away so it was only the sawtooth wear doing it.

Thanks for the summary of that info - it matches what I have posted above already.

Please explain the camber adjustment for the folks - I havent seen a service manual for the octavia but I suspect your alluding to adjusting the position of the lower ball joint on the control arm?

If thats what you're saying, then most alignment places are pretty right to say its not adjustable since theres not a lot of adjustment there, and if they do adjust it they have to put new stretch bolts in for you aswell.... which they wont be able to do off hand.