Eliminating wheel hop / axle tramp

[McDub]

So i gather this is quite a common problem with MK IV's from reading around.
Other than group buy threads on dog bone mounts, i havn't seen a thread actually specifically on this topic.

what's the best way to reduce or eliminate that wheel chatter, particularly when you floor it in first gear? Sometimes when i've spun the wheels off the line, and the road has been uneven, the sound and resulting vibrations from the wheels seemingly bouncing around has been TERRIBLE! Most other times it's more subtle, but still likely causing damage to the drivetrain (i'm particulalry worried about possible damage to the dif...), oh and of course it's robbing me of smooth power delivery!

I don't want to spend a whole lot, so basically just want to replace a couple of bushings, which from what i've read, is the easiest way to fix this.

So replace the dog bone mount?

Or replace the engine mount insert? http://europeanautotech.com.au/produ...-8t-transverse

and forgive my lack of knoweldge on where exactly these are on the car and therefore what's involved in replacing them, roughly how much labour time/costs would it take to replace say the engine mount insert, or the dog bone mount.

If labour costs are significant, then i might consider delaying this untill i need to replace my clutch.

thanks

[gavs]

McDub, yes the wheel hop is an inherant Mk4 trait.

The first thing I would suggest you do is to start with the torque arm bushes (aka "dogbone"). You could go down the path of replacing the whole arm, but seriously, the 3, maybe 4 minutes you save in fitting time does not outweigh the extra $100+ you will spend. My suggestion is to have a look on the Dub Addiction website, on there you will find 2 different types of bush, both will be better than stock. Generally, this is a 10 minute job.

For comparison, I have the Harding Performance bushes in my dogbone, these are a 90 duro polyurethane bush. These are rather firm and induce quite a bit of vibration into the car, but I'm now used to it and besides, I enjoy driving my car and like to know and feel what's going on with it. Some people will elude to polyurethane bushes being too harsh and wearing out quicker than rubber because they have decreased flexibilty.

That is a load of Crap. I work in the engineering department of one of the countries largest aftermarket automotive brands and we engineer suspension systems. I have seen videos where rubber bushes are rendered useless within 10 minutes of driving over serious rough roads, whereas a corresponding duro polyurethane bush fails only after 3 hours simulating the same punishment. Originally poly bushes were crap, they were hard and had no flexibility. That was 40 years ago when they were only ever designed for race applications, now companies spend considerable time in R&D trying to hone these products and materials.

As for the engine mounts, I would look at the transmission mounts first to stop the torquing of the whole driving system, then look at the engine mounts. Again, Dub Addiction has these replacement bushes.

Hope that sheds some light

[h100vw]

Dogbone inserts first and easiest from a DIY stand point. Second replace the rear wishbone bushes, which are likely to be worn out, with TT/S3/R32 ones which are solid rubber.

Gavin

EDIT

PM goodfella and tell him I said to. He has a pair in his shed.

[JustCruisn]

Dogbone + wider tyres have just about removed it all for me.
Tramp only happens when the tyres loose traction - wide sticky tyres help.
I'm not sure lowing the car helped or not.

[dubbed]

I fitted the INA dogbone mount (rubber, street version) and found it eliminated a knock between 1-2 gear change - I assume this was the downpipe hitting the firewall or something. A lot of wheel hop was eliminated but there's still quite a bit there. I am going to try something very firm next time but worried about how much vibrations I'll get through the cabin.

Otherwise just ease through the RPMs

[DUB 12V]

i have a INA street mount if you need one?? brand new $100.00 thanks

[Gravey]

i have a INA street mount if you need one?? brand new $100.00 thanks

Why didnt you fit it Dub12V? All the Mk4 DBM's are the same arent they...i.e, Bora vs Golf?

[McDub]

i have a INA street mount if you need one?? brand new $100.00 thanks

hmmm tempting... but the shore hardness is only 50...

hmmm dub addiction, have never heard of that site! cheers gavs

they sell 65A BFI inserts for only $35!
Think i'll get that (lot cheaper than the $99 ones from APR...)

And i think i'll follow this tutorial:
http://vagtools.com/tuning.php?page=2&id=5

think i might have to buy me some jack stands so i can DIY this one
damn will need a torque wrench as well... guess i'll have to start building up my tool collection!

does this look right to you, looks like they've damaged the car with the jack stand
sure it's near the bottom of the car, but even on my car, i can see simillar crease marks where it looks like it's been jacked up before, and i'm pretty fussy with things like that


also, i don't quite understand the way they jacked the car in the tutorial to get both front wheels up, they jacked it up on the side like you would if you were replacing a tyre, and then the next shot, you've got the two jack stands on each side, and the jack in the middle of the car... can someone tell me the best way to do this?
could i just use the jack on the side rail, and the one jack in the middle under the sub frame? so just one wheel off the ground...

[gavs]

No worries McDub

Mine are the APR inserts and they're 90 shore hardness, but I don't even notice it anymore, but driving a friend's MkIV, I notice it then, especially under hard acceleration gear changes.

To answer your other question, yes you will need to jack both wheels off the ground, I only jacked up one side and it was nigh on impossible to get some of the bolts back in!

[JustCruisn]

hmmm tempting... but the shore hardness is only 50...

hmmm dub addiction, have never heard of that site! cheers gavs

they sell 65A BFI inserts for only $35!
Think i'll get that (lot cheaper than the $99 ones from APR...)

And i think i'll follow this tutorial:
http://vagtools.com/tuning.php?page=2&id=5

think i might have to buy me some jack stands so i can DIY this one
damn will need a torque wrench as well... guess i'll have to start building up my tool collection!

does this look right to you, looks like they've damaged the car with the jack stand
sure it's near the bottom of the car, but even on my car, i can see simillar crease marks where it looks like it's been jacked up before, and i'm pretty fussy with things like that

also, i don't quite understand the way they jacked the car in the tutorial to get both front wheels up, they jacked it up on the side like you would if you were replacing a tyre, and then the next shot, you've got the two jack stands on each side, and the jack in the middle of the car... can someone tell me the best way to do this?
could i just use the jack on the side rail, and the one jack in the middle under the sub frame? so just one wheel off the ground...

Jack up the car on one side using the normal jacking point on the side rail.
Put a jack stand on that side, I use the forward part of the chassis rail.
Then do the same on the other side.
The 3rd stand should be used to hold the weight of the engine/transmission when taking off the mount. You could just use a jack with a block of wood for this.

Have a read here. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2951609