Calling Bora 4mo or Mk4 R32 Golf owners - Need suspension advice for the track

[WhO]

Hi Guys,

Just hoping i might be able to get some advice from those who compete in track events / hill climb events.

I'm after a new suspension setup for the Bora but am undecided as to whether to go with a coilover setup or a good spring / shock combo. This post is moreso aimed towards getting advice with the latter and thus does anyone have experience with good shocks + springs to mate together for track use but still remain at a reasonable (if at all possible street legal) height.

For those with coilovers, do you find the rear suspension suffers from coil bind as a result of the shortened amount of space for the rear spring when combined with a coilover perch or do spring manufacturers take this into consideration fairly well. I ask this as i know i've seen some non adjustable rear springs which coil bind prior to hitting the bump stops as they are produced with too many coils.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Cheers,
Rob

[qsilverza]

I know somebody who was using bilstein stuff on the rear of the bora but he had some problems with rear coil-over binding as you say. But I know Manaz did some research on this subject and I think he may have went with the bilsteins.

I had R32 Springs/Shocks US version in mine and it was slightly better.

I personally would go for a good coil-over combo with damping adjustment to allow for road/track and exact heigh adjustment, also allows for variances in your suspension to be easily adjusted within reason. I have some Pedders stuff in my forester and while they are o.k. for the road with damping backed off, when I pump up the dampening it made a world of difference like night and day on a smooth road like reefton.

[vwsport]

Have you done your swaybars? I found that made the biggest difference but I also upgraded to Bilstein PSS9's last year

I ended up with Neuspeed 25mm Rear Race Anti-Sway Bar and 22mm Front (NS15.02.22.9 NS25.10.25.9) - (there was an issue with the neuspeed front sway bar bushes though they didnt fit maybe as they are R32 bars)

Bilstein released a new version of the PSS9 late last year BS GM5-8042-H5 which was what I got that superseeded the H0 and the price went up. I have had coil over binding once but it only happened on a very big driveway. I actually find now with the sway bars and suspension the ride is softer than it was when I was running the eibach springs with the oem dampners + sway bars (it is on pretty much the middle setting for the PSS9 so there is still a lot of adjustment).

Have been very happy with the handling fitted easily with no issues. I considered KW at the time but have always liked Bilstein so went with them and havent been disappointed but could have gone either way.

[balkanac]

can someone please explain what the coilover binding is?

[Preen59]

I would suggest KW, but being a dealer I guess i'm biased.

can someone please explain what the coilover binding is?

When the spring compresses to the point where all the coils are touching, therefore binding.

[jvlracing]

If u want toget out of it cheaply but still have a good setup...find someone with weight scales..
this way u will determine wat u need.
Baby steps first...

[Manaz]

I went with Bilstein PSS9s, and they were good, except for one problem - the rear spring coil binding.

What caused that though is quite interesting. In ~2008, Bilstein actually revised the design of the PSS9 rear springs, changing both the shape (moving from a "spherical" design to a "conical" design) and the spring rate (which they increased, along with a corresponding reduction in the number of coils). The combination of the two changes makes quite an improvement apparently. This was fixed on the setup I bought (I somehow got old stock, and this was rectified by the vendor at their expense, so I can't complain).

That said, if I were to do it all again, I'd likely go with a KW product. KW's coilovers come in three variations (or "variants" as they call them - v1 is a basic height-adjustable setup, v2 is height and rebound adjustable, and v3 is height,rebound and compression adjustable (to be entirely correct, there are actually two variations on v3 - regular and "clubsport", the latter being aimed at more serious track work - this is what quozl's R32 tarmac rally car ran for quite some time, though for serious "trying to be at the pointy end against cars which are dedicated to highly competitive events" racing, even the v3 Clubsports aren't 100%, and dedicated motorsport alternatives may need to be sought for a dedicated motorsport vehicle).

If you're serious about trackwork (but only as a part-time thing), you'd likely find that the V3s would probably suit your requirements. For ~$3500 plus fitting (cheaper if you source them from overseas), they're not cheap - but you're going to get what you pay for. KW also have an adjustable strut-top mount if you're interested as well, though it's solid (no rubber), so your ride quality will suffer for using it.

One other thing to note is that there's two main styles of coilovers - (and dampers in general) - single/mono tube or twin tube. Various people say various things about the advantages/disadvantages of each design, but only one thing is really clear - each design has its own advantages and disadvantages, and your choice of one over another will largely come down to being whatever design your chosen product happens to implement rather than being a decision you actively make as part of your selection criteria. For what it's worth, Bilstein PSS9s are a monotube design, which Bilstein claim gives greater control, whereas KW use a twintube design, which they claim gives more flexibility for variable tuning and better protection against damage to the damper mechanism should an external object strike the body of the damper.

One final thing - ride height is probably the least of your concerns if you're serious about track days (as a non-professional driver/team at least) - or is at least in terms of going low - lower isn't always better, and for some tracks (particularly tracks with significant road surface level changes), lower ride height means less suspension travel, which can lead to either suspension bottoming out prematurely during driving or even lifting of tyres off the road due to lack of travel. Low's great as long as you're not compromising suspension/steering geometry and you have nice smooth surfaces to work with, but if there's significant deviation/rough stuff (like on public roads for instance), you can often get better results out of a softer, longer travelling suspension setup than a stiff, low ride.

On corner-weighting - I'd hardly call that a first step myself, but rather see it as a "the right suspension product got me to 8/10ths of what the car can, do, let's extract another 10th now" step...

[jvlracing]

Some valid points above but the last paragraph alittle of par....
Lots of drivers use corner weighting, it can determine wat spring ratings etc....
To many people rely on the fact of a top brand names(suspension) will make them a better driver
U only learn by learning the set up of ur car!!...Its my first step before spendin thousands on dollars..

[Preen59]

For daily driving and some track work, the KW V3 is definitely the way to go in my opinion. If you want to do around 80%+ track work, then look into the KW Clubsport range.. But I must stress that they will ride harsh on public roads.

KW V3 Inox for Bora 4 motion is $2719.00, not $3500.00. And I usually throw in delivery for free depending where they're going.


Corner weighting does make a difference, but is not essential for initial setup. Manufacturers like KW will have a very good off-the-shelf base package for spring rate. There's a lot of things you will need to worry about before you need to start changing springs. You will have a large amount of scope just in your separate low speed bump and rebound adjustment with the KW V3 or Clubsport 2 way suspension.

[type 17]

Stasis Öllens, thats the money shot, ive got clubsports and had major issues, sorry preen