"alternator workshop" warning

[McDub]

I've had this warning light flash up on me twice in say the last 6 months, but it goes away very quickly, almost too quick to read even. both times it showed up just after had taken off in the car.

now i've not started my car for two weeks, and i go to start it, it turned over and the engine started but then the engine stalled after a second or two.
subsequent attempts the starter motor appears to be working but the engine doesn't start. i tried jump starting it but with no luck, i tried doing so with the other car running for a while with no luck, and then i tried with both cars off but with the batteries connected for a good 20 min, no luck. it shows about 12.7 volts across the battery terminals (not sure what it shows when trying to start it)

anyway i've just joined nrma roadside assist, and can't call them for 48 hours or you gotta pay them $160...

are these two things related?

a bit more info, i've had it a couple times in the last 6 odd months where it has taken several turns of the key to start the engine. so i don't know if the alternator is going, or if the battery is going etc.
anway NRMA will hopefully sort it out shortly, but in the meantime, anyone have any ideas?

cheers

[h100vw]

The alternator has nothing to do with starting the car. If you had a good battery or jumped it, the engine would run fine.

Back to basics, have you got fuel in the cylinders, wet plugs?

Have you got a spark? Pull a coil pack out and stick a plug in it while cranking.

This is what the NRMA guy will do.

I am assuming you haven't got a scanner of any type.

Gavin

[McDub]

The alternator has nothing to do with starting the car.

well not strictly true... if the alternator isn't charging the battery properly then you wouldn't have enough charge to start the car, but i know what you're saying.

i havn't investigated if the plugs are sparking, i have seen nrma check that once on an old holden work car when it broke down... turns out it was the fuel pump that was dying and they just tapped the bottom of the fuel tank (where the pump sat) while cranking and it started up.
i might have a further look tomorrow... thanks for the ideas

and btw, my car has been running rich for a while at WOT (still work in progress as to the reason for this...), so i wonder if this is affecting anything... possibly fouled sparkies?
just hopefully not a starter motor, sounds expensive.
perhaps there is a problem with the starter motors ground...?

[h100vw]

You could remove the alternator and the engine would start off a charged battery.

I doubt that all the plugs would be so bad, you don't get a hint of a spark.

Have you tried bumping it, shove it down the road and see if it'll go.

Gavin

[Jmac]

Do a battery drop test mate, its maybe static at 12.7 v but when you load it up it might be heaps less. Check the charge rate as well, nit uncommon for an alternator failure TBH, also not uncommon for HEAPS of electronic gremlins being introduced from a duff battery, affect ecus big time and auto trans nowadays. Start from scratch as you should do for the over fuelling. Anyone who uses a diagnostic check sheet guess what the top line asks???? Batt voltage and Batt condition. so easy to get tricked, been there
Good luck with it
Cheers
Jmac

[dodge]

I've got similar symptoms to you McDub, mine had been having issues starting on and off for a couple of months now. My battery voltage is still good while cranking but I have no spark. I also get no ecu communication (through vag com cable) so I figure my coilpacks and plugs are fine as the problem is further up the line.

I have managed to fluke a fix a couple of times before, it was either through unplugging/plugging the ecu or bumping a wiring loom. This thing is driving me fkn nuts, now I need to start poking around checking connections everywhere....

Btw, my engine stalled after 20 seconds or so, and it stumbled twice rather than cutting straight out. If your's cut out after 2 seconds could it be an immobiliser issue? I've heard something about a ring in the ignition barrels playing up in our cars, I haven't looked at mine yet though.

If your starter is cranking away nicely and you hear the fuel pump prime when you open the door, you should be able to rule out fuel and the starter as causes... I think.

[McDub]

If your starter is cranking away nicely and you hear the fuel pump prime when you open the door, you should be able to rule out fuel and the starter as causes... I think.

ok i can't hear that sound when i open the door!!!
this means my fuel pump has gone, or could this be a symptom of another problem i wonder...

[dodge]

check relay 409 on the board under the steering column, give it a tap and see if it clicks on. You can pull it out and put 12v across the two small pins and see if the big pins connect.

[McDub]

car's working. don't you just love how easily NRMA seem to be able to get cars started!

turns out there wasn't enough oil pressure for the lifters IIRC.
he turned the key for like a minute, and could tell from the sound what was going on, so he keeps cranking it, then the display reads out "STOP", then it reads out a low oil pressure warning or something like that, and then eventually, as it starts to sound healthier and healthier, the engine starts up!
was very surprised the battery had that much power in it.
who would have thought, you just keep turning the key if it doesn't start...

He checked the oil and commented on it being very dirty, so it's degraged a fair bit i think, there's still enough in there, halfway mark.
It last had the oil changed ~8000k's ago. Castrol Edge 5W-30
So should i either change it more often or change to a different oil?

another thing, before i did the last oil change, it had been 20,000ks since the oil had been changed, and when i went to check, the dip stick came out completely dry!!!! (i know i know)
Why didn't my low oil level warning light come on then?

[h100vw]

I don't reckon there is a level warning for the oil. You should check it once in a while.

If it has missed oil changes in the past you should, do a couple in reasonably quick succession maybe 5000ks.

That will help clean out the motor.

Gavin