Which people mover...

**The_Hawk** · 22-05-2010, 06:04 PM

Your on the money there, you can't have a reward facing safety seat.

**_ds** · 22-05-2010, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by The_Hawk

You're on the money there, you can't have a reward facing safety seat.

Really? Had no idea. Where'd you find this info, and what's the reasoning behind it? Having them rearward seems safer to me, not less safe.

To clear up any ambiguity; they're in the upright position, not the 'baby' position

**Seano** · 24-05-2010, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by blaast

Just to help you out with the car seat situation.
Our 2009 Caravelle has the 3, 2, 3, seat configuration, but only the middle two have anchor points.
However, I have anchored a Infa Secure Travale booster to the round bar at the rear base of the seat.
I did this by looping a long Safe'n'Sound extension strap around this round bar.
The two ends of the extension strap are then clipped onto the seats anchor clips, so all connections are genuine safety clips and straps, and there is no risk of the extension strap fraying, nor is the little side to side movement once properly tightened.
I'm not sure if all of that really makes sense.

I cannot see how this can be any different safety-wise to any other form of anchor point, ie. built into the seat, floor or roof, or even by the installation of a child restraint anchor bar (CRAB).
I am extremely vigilant in making sure my four kids are safely secured, and I wouldn't have done this if I wasn't 100% confident that it would be safe.
But please, if I have overlooked anything in doing this, please let me know!

Essentially, with this idea you can have four anchored seats, as it won't work for the middle rear seat.

We love the middle two seat bench as it allows us to open the door on the CURB side and the kids can pile in (or the baby carried in) without having to slide or tilt a seat.
It is then VERY easy access for us to make sure they are all secured.

Keep an eye out because there are still a couple of low km, late 2009 SWB Caravelle's being sold in Melbourne for ~$40,000 drive away. At this price they kill a Carnival or iMax, and it was the iMax we were going to purchase until I was lucky enough to come across the one we have now.

Cheers.

Blaast....your biggest potential problem is whether the VW seat frame was built to withstand the load placed on it by an occupied baby seat in the event of a crash. I had a yarn with the engineer when fitting an anchor in the T4 DOKA and he pointed out that it was easy to fit anchors when it could be done in a way that did NOT load up the seat back in the event of a crash. However, if one couldn't then it was a huge problem because few if any seat backs are made in such a way to withstand compressive loads that may be placed on them by loaded seatbelt webbing during a crash. Check where most modern cars have child anchors...very very few are in the floor...

If I understand your anchor method correctly....by anchoring your child seating to the floor....you are potentially loading the seat back in the event of a crash. If it isn't built to withstand such a load then the consequences could be rather horrific.

**The_Hawk** · 24-05-2010, 10:16 AM

I had a look at a Multivan at the Nationals yesterday, anchor points on the back of the back three seats (and apparently on the two swivel ones as well, but they were out of the car for the day). Very impressive looking vehicle in the flesh

**blaast** · 26-05-2010, 01:47 PM

_ds:
The note on child restraints fitted to swivel seats is in the 'Australian model supplement'.
It states "The child restraint anchorages located on the 2nd row swivel seats MUST NOT be utilised when in the rearward facing position".
No explanation is given as to why, but it is written in bold capitals...so it must be serious!

Seano:
The entire third row bench seat is removable, so the car seats 'anchor' (extension strap in my case) is wrapped around the support bar of this bench seat. So no, it is not attached to the floor. If the car body crumples then there is no force imposed on the anchor strap. The seat itself would have to be deformed for this to happen, which I assume would be the same as an anchor point on the rear of the seat.
You can see the round bar at the base of the seat in this picture (http://www.getprice.com.au/images/up...0_13517071.jpg).
Appreciate your thoughts, and if you have anymore, please let me know.

**Seano** · 27-05-2010, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by blaast

The entire third row bench seat is removable, so the car seats 'anchor' (extension strap in my case) is wrapped around the support bar of this bench seat. So no, it is not attached to the floor. If the car body crumples then there is no force imposed on the anchor strap. The seat itself would have to be deformed for this to happen, which I assume would be the same as an anchor point on the rear of the seat.
You can see the round bar at the base of the seat in this picture (http://www.getprice.com.au/images/up...0_13517071.jpg).
Appreciate your thoughts, and if you have anymore, please let me know.

Yep...the potential problem is not the anchor point itself. I have no issues with the strength of that anchor. The problem is the strap that I assume goes over the seat back from the anchor to the child seat. The risk is that the seat back will deform under the pressure exerted on it by the strap in the event of an accident - so the child seat goes for a very big fly around the cabin. Seats and seat backs that have anchor points built into them are engineered and crash tested to cope with such a load. Yours may not be....unless it has the normal retractable lap sash passenger seatbelts built into it in which case it 'might' be OK. I know the one in my T4 DOKA certainly wasn't.

**blaast** · 27-05-2010, 11:31 AM

Thanks Seano. I will definitely get an engineer to take a look then!
The seat being tethered in this way is an anchored booster seat with the vehicles seat belt (not a 5 point harness) securing my 5 yo.

On another note, I have wondered about the safety of a CRAB because they are fitted in the boot attaching from one side of a vehicle to the other.
In the event of an (rear) accident I would have thought that this bar could deform and thus create stress forces on the tether strap of the anchored child seat.
Anything could happen to the child restraint in that case!

**Seano** · 31-05-2010, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by blaast

The seat being tethered in this way is an anchored booster seat with the vehicles seat belt (not a 5 point harness) securing my 5 yo.

In this circumstance you would probably be OK if the anchor is only holding the seat itself in place. If your child is being restrained by the vehicle seatbelt rather than the booster seat harness then any stopping forces are being taken up by an engineered seatbelt. Which is just fine...

**The_Hawk** · 06-06-2010, 09:56 PM

Well it looks like I'm this close ->' ' to ordering a new Multivan

Just have to have a work to the finance people tomorrow and it should be all sweet. I'm looking at the Comfortline 103 with Towbar, popup table and RNS510, although it's still up to the dealer if I can nab one thats already in the country and add those options or if I have to order one from scratch. So it's either a 2 week wait or a 4 month wait... will find out soon enough

Pretty excited