Clarifying an issue with lift and Tire size

[Big Bug]

Big Bug

What rims did you use to fit the 235/65R17 under the wheel arches and do the tyres scrub on full lock?

Thanks

Sent from my R7g using Tapatalk

I just put them on the standard rims. They only seem to scrub on the drivers side doing a full lock left turn. That could be because I had a local bloke make me an engine protection guard and I had to make a piece for it that goes up into the wheel well to stop anything getting in and wrecking the belts on the drivers side of the engine.

Bruce CQ.

[Bryn23]

Well, I spoke to the local tire guy on friday to get a price on some load rated alloy rims and he asked what tires i wanted.

told him i was looking at 225/65R17 BFG's AT. so we get past the whole it's not a 4WD thing, the VW Transporter is a N plated vehicle, so all good.

Ask's me if its got ESC (electric stability control). the T6 has ESP and according to QLD Transport, You can lift up to 50mm, but no tire lift...

So i double checked when i got home as i thought i'd sorted out the seikel lift and small tire increase was all good

Here is a copy paste of the QLD transport info, and also the original document.

I think he is right, the way i have read the document is it is a lift or tire increase, but not both

Lowering or Raising of Vehicles
A vehicle’s suspension can be raised or lowered by 50mm without specific approval, provided:
• at least two thirds of the original suspension travel in either direction is maintained
• coil springs remain in locating seats on full suspension droop
• the normal relationship between the front and rear suspension heights is
not unduly affected
• replacement springs have the same or greater load capacity as the original springs
• suspension coil springs are not shortened by cutting or heating
• leaf spring suspensions are not raised by the use of extended shackles, adjustable metal plates or by placing the
leaf springs to the opposite side of the axle
• if lowering blocks are used, they are either steel or aluminium
• the vehicle maintains a minimum running clearance of 100mm and the requirements in Australian Design Rule (ADR) 43 are met*
• the suspension of a vehicle fitted with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) may be modified without certification provided it is not combined with any other lift (i.e tyre and suspension, suspension and body block, etc).
*Generally, a vehicle which maintains a minimum clearance of 100mm between the ground and any point on the underside of the vehicle (except a point on a tyre, wheel, wheel hub, brake backing plate or flexible mudguard or mudflap) will meet ADR 43.
For more information regarding ground clearance and running clearance please refer to the LS section of the National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification.

Alternative Rims and Tyres
Many vehicle owners like to replace the vehicle’s original rims and tyres with alternatives of different width, diameter and profile.
The following sub-sections outline the legal requirements for replacement rims and tyres fitted to a passenger car or derivative, or to an off-road passenger car (not including a light commercial vehicle), which will ensure your vehicle continues to comply with Queensland legislation, while allowing for your individual preferences.
For a passenger car, passenger car derivative or ‘soft roader’ (an all-wheel
drive vehicle that may be certified as MC ADR category), the overall diameter
of any tyre fitted must not be more than 15mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model.
The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:
• a 4WD passenger vehicle specifically designed for off-road use (MC ADR category other than a ‘soft roader’);
• a 4WD goods vehicle and its 2WD equivalent if the chassis and running gear are essentially the same as the 4WD version (N ADR category); or
• medium weight goods vehicle (NA2, NB ADR category);
must not be more than 50mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle. Tyre diameters of a vehicle fitted with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) may be modified without certification provided it is not combined with any other lift (i.e tyre and suspension, tyre and body block, etc).







https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUK EwjLw8XA0ODPAhVFHGMKHcFNAWcQFggbMAA&url=http%3A%2F %2Fwww.tmr.qld.gov.au%2F-%2Fmedia%2FSafety%2FVehicle-standards-and-modifications%2FVehicle-standards%2FVehicle-standards-instructions%2FG19.pdf%3Fla%3Den&usg=AFQjCNEWTtRf_ qZz3U9ns4qtUVwwS8tWew&bvm=bv.135974163,d.cGc

[Markee]

I just found and read this Modifying 4wd tyres and suspension legally - Offroad Aussie
and this Modify tyres and suspension legally Part 2 - Offroad Aussie
after reading Vicroads version of QLD link above and to me anything up to 50mm is now fine on vehicles with ESC.

[Hillbilly]

I just found and read this Modifying 4wd tyres and suspension legally - Offroad Aussie
and this Modify tyres and suspension legally Part 2 - Offroad Aussie
after reading Vicroads version of QLD link above and to me anything up to 50mm is now fine on vehicles with ESC.

Those articles are referring to West Australian modification and as we well know what applies in one state may be totally different in the others.
As you are in Brisbane the QLD rules apply and on reading them you can go to 50mm by ONE of Two methods but NOT both together. So a suspension lift OR larger tyres but NOT both.

[Bryn23]

So Hillbilly, i have read it right

The 30mm Seikel lift or 225/65/R17 BFG KO2 tires.... i was about to put my order in for the Seikel Maxi Lift Kit as I've been given a build date from the dealer...

i want both, but want to be legal.

[Hillbilly]

So Hillbilly, i have read it right

The 30mm Seikel lift or 225/65/R17 BFG KO2 tires.... i was about to put my order in for the Seikel Maxi Lift Kit as I've been given a build date from the dealer...

i want both, but want to be legal.

Well to me the bold print bit says it fairly plainly • the suspension of a vehicle fitted with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) may be modified without certification provided it is not combined with any other lift (i.e tyre and suspension, suspension and body block, etc).

To do anything else would require certification (if its possible) Ring the TMR and ask for the Technical dept and ask them for their version of the rule. After all they are the ones who enforce it

[Bryn23]

Well to me the bold print bit says it fairly plainly • the suspension of a vehicle fitted with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) may be modified without certification provided it is not combined with any other lift (i.e tyre and suspension, suspension and body block, etc).

To do anything else would require certification (if its possible) Ring the TMR and ask for the Technical dept and ask them for their version of the rule. After all they are the ones who enforce it

I did seem clear to me, i was just hoping i'd read it wrong.

I've read the rules before, and thought i was all good, but i didn't take the ESC into account, as i assumed a commercial van didn't have ESC.

I just have to decide what is more important, lift or tire size.

i will double check tomorrow with QLD transport, maybe there is a compromise of 50mm overall, say 30mm lift and 15-20mm taller tires...

but i doubt it.

[Sunny43.5]

Without wanting to make a big deal out of this subject I wonder if you are worrying a bit too much about how close to the regulations you can skirt . I used to hold a Qld Transport vehicle modification certification and believe me the rules are somewhat overlooked unless its a critical safety breach . Now for instance my VW T5 work van has Holden Crewman alloy wheels fitted with correct load rated tyres . I have had one major insurance claim for severe damage done when the van rolled away down our hill {don't ask } insurance did not give a toss about the wheels even though they have Holden insignias in the centre caps . I have also lost track of how many times I have been pulled over for RBT and other inspections by the police and never had any problems . I know that it would be an important thing in some peoples minds to keep right up to the letter of the law , but when you see all these cars that have been lowered so far and have no suspension left ie 19inch wheels or bigger on Commodores with 1 inch of rubber between the rims and the roads what you are proposing would be well and truly overlooked . Unless you are going to draw attention to your self by doing wheelies and other hoon things you have a one in a million chance of being picked up for a few mm out of specs . The only time that the letter of the law might be used is if someone was killed as a result of the modification .

[Hillbilly]

There is usually no problem with different wheels provided they meet or exceed the original wheel specs.

I ran after market Mags on my Falcon Taxis and the inspector wanted to see the ratings before passing them.

However should you have an accident with illegal mods such as proposed and the vehicle falls over, for instance, the noose might tighten.

You can have bigger rims with low profile rubber bands and still be legal even if looking completely stupid.

I prefer to know Im legal and not have to hold my breath if stopped.

Had an instance in NZ in a diesel when a cop pulled me over for no reason other than I was a taxi from a different city and he wondered what I was doing there. The only thing he looked at was my Road user Tax label which due to me not renewing it before the 900km trip, was in arrears. He warned me but the fine would have been triple what was owed at the time. Didnt do that again.

[Bryn23]

Without wanting to make a big deal out of this subject I wonder if you are worrying a bit too much about how close to the regulations you can skirt . I used to hold a Qld Transport vehicle modification certification and believe me the rules are somewhat overlooked unless its a critical safety breach . Now for instance my VW T5 work van has Holden Crewman alloy wheels fitted with correct load rated tyres . I have had one major insurance claim for severe damage done when the van rolled away down our hill {don't ask } insurance did not give a toss about the wheels even though they have Holden insignias in the centre caps . I have also lost track of how many times I have been pulled over for RBT and other inspections by the police and never had any problems . I know that it would be an important thing in some peoples minds to keep right up to the letter of the law , but when you see all these cars that have been lowered so far and have no suspension left ie 19inch wheels or bigger on Commodores with 1 inch of rubber between the rims and the roads what you are proposing would be well and truly overlooked . Unless you are going to draw attention to your self by doing wheelies and other hoon things you have a one in a million chance of being picked up for a few mm out of specs . The only time that the letter of the law might be used is if someone was killed as a result of the modification .

Your right, most of the time it is overlooked, but on the off chance, there was a major accident, then it comes into play.

I've been through that, when i was a passenger in a van accident and due to a serious injury, the police crash unit analysed the van. it was a stock van, so no non compliance van issues on that front. but they did check everything from tires, tread eta. to determine the cause of the crash..

I know that there are a lot of people out there running lowered cars, legal or not, I just want to know that to the best of my ability that I've done the right thing legally.