Mk1: Difference between auto and manual starter motor

[datzed]

Guys, anyone know what the differences are exactly?
That is, are they completely different things that arnt interchangeable at all?

mk1 auto pictured to the left of the below pics.




Reason I ask is, the outgoing auto starter motor from my mk1 is identical to starter motor I've gotten from volskpower in every way except at the solenoid of the outgoing starter, there are three connections: one main one for the power from the battery which bolts on. Then two small wires with clips in red, and another in black.

The new starter only has two (the main power one, and one clip on wire connector).

Just wondering if the new one from volkspower is for a manual mk1.

[roccodingo]

Cause the auto starter lives under the exhaust manifold, and not on the trans it rotates the opposite direction. They clag out from getting cooked by the exhaust as well.

[datzed]

Yup, mine has failed and am in the process of replacing it. Taring my hair out atm though.

Starter works when you put 12v DC to it sitting on the floor (via jumper leads).
Once installed, it doesn't work.
While installed, I've put an electric bicycle pump terminal to the 12v cable coming into the starter motor and it works.
Even hooked the bicycle pump to the 12v ignition terminal cable at the starter motor end and it works when ignition is on.
So its getting 12v.

Yet when its all hooked up, I get nothing. Starter doesn't even 'click'.
I suspect there might be an earth issue somewhere at the starter.
But I just assumed the starter is earthed when its bolted to the gearbox.

[sports racer]

You've checked / cleaned the earth cable from motor to chassis to battery?

[datzed]

I had earthed the starter motor to the engine and chassis via jumper leads as a test, and it still had the issue. But I suspect the chassis point I chose was a bit dodgy. I'll give it a better shot tonight. Only other thing I havent done is earthed the earth terminal wire that comes to the starter motor. As I said previously, the new starter motor doesnt have a male connector for this earth plug, so I might just earth it to the starter motor temporarily to see if its the issue.

As its getting power ok at the terminals to the starter motor, an earth issue is the only thing I can think of. Can it be anything else?

[sports racer]

Here's a longshot but if you're clutching at straws....... 30 years ago I had a 1957 Merceds Benz 220S with a dodgy starter motor. A replacement MB one was way out of my price range but a Holden one fitted perfectly. It would work when out of the car then only once when bolted to the engine. For a couple of months I made sure to always park on a hill and eventually I found a cheap MB one that worked perfectly. It wasn't until years later that I found out the Holden one was 1mm narrower where it fitted to the bellhousing and that 1mm movement was enough to jam the starter motor gear on the flywheel and stop it working. If all else fails try loosening the starter motor and see if it makes any difference.

[Bora Sport]

Have you tried moving the gear selector around, tried Park and Neutral etc. It sounds to me like there might be a problem there that is stopping the starter from working just as if you tried to start it in drive.

[datzed]

Here's a longshot but if you're clutching at straws....... 30 years ago I had a 1957 Merceds Benz 220S with a dodgy starter motor. A replacement MB one was way out of my price range but a Holden one fitted perfectly. It would work when out of the car then only once when bolted to the engine. For a couple of months I made sure to always park on a hill and eventually I found a cheap MB one that worked perfectly. It wasn't until years later that I found out the Holden one was 1mm narrower where it fitted to the bellhousing and that 1mm movement was enough to jam the starter motor gear on the flywheel and stop it working. If all else fails try loosening the starter motor and see if it makes any difference.

Thanks for that, I might try the starter completely unbolted but with connectors still on (and earthed via cables) to see if that works.

Have you tried moving the gear selector around, tried Park and Neutral etc. It sounds to me like there might be a problem there that is stopping the starter from working just as if you tried to start it in drive.

Thanks mate. Had not occured to me. Will try this tonight.

I'm almost over trying to get this to work. Almost seams worth it to cut a hole in the chassis and flintstoneing this **** heap. :p

[datzed]

Problem solved. Dodgy earth from engine to chassis. I must have dislodged something while I was working.

Cheers for the replies guys.