coilover experience.

[Preen59]

you guys are crazy.

the spring rate of the keeper spring is low, true, however it plays an important role. see, it might not be in use when the car is sitting on its wheels, flat (could be completely coil bound) but as you go over and bump and the suspension extends, it helps the suspension to extend as load is removed from that wheel, as the main spring, being so hard, cannot extend very far. furthermore, it will help control the load up of that strut again as weight goes back on, since the sppring will resist the loading a little.

maybe i'm just getting old (okay, i am, holy crap im nearly 24) but running too low just causes soooooo many problems.

This is pretty much exactly what i was going to say.

Basically, when there's a dip in the road, the helper spring extends the shock to follow the road. This makes the ride smoother. It's not very stiff, so it doesn't (or shouldn't) affect the rebound during cornering much at all, but helps over bumps in day to day running. Otherwise when you go over a dip, the wheel doesn't extend down far enough and becomes unweighted, followed by it coming "crashing" down to the road (with the full corner weight on top of it) and onto the fairly hard main spring. That's what makes the ride feel harsh. Well, one of the reasons anyway..

[Spyda]

As far as i know the only reason to take the helper spring out is to to get that extra 2" lower. I thought it was prity plane and simple, the shorter distance your shock can travel the worse your ride is.

[evorobin]

This is pretty much exactly what i was going to say.

Basically, when there's a dip in the road, the helper spring extends the shock to follow the road. This makes the ride smoother. It's not very stiff, so it doesn't (or shouldn't) affect the rebound during cornering much at all, but helps over bumps in day to day running. Otherwise when you go over a dip, the wheel doesn't extend down far enough and becomes unweighted, followed by it coming "crashing" down to the road (with the full corner weight on top of it) and onto the fairly hard main spring. That's what makes the ride feel harsh. Well, one of the reasons anyway..

Just seen this and agree with Preeny the helper spring keeps the main spring sured. While people will do this I certainly wouldn't recommend it unless for a smooth race track.

[rayray086]

you guys are crazy.

the spring rate of the keeper spring is low, true, however it plays an important role. see, it might not be in use when the car is sitting on its wheels, flat (could be completely coil bound) but as you go over and bump and the suspension extends, it helps the suspension to extend as load is removed from that wheel, as the main spring, being so hard, cannot extend very far. furthermore, it will help control the load up of that strut again as weight goes back on, since the sppring will resist the loading a little.

maybe i'm just getting old (okay, i am, holy crap im nearly 24) but running too low just causes soooooo many problems.

Ah, I didn't think of that way...

So what about coilover systems that originally don't use a helper spring? E.g. the Koni don't use a helper spring but I suppose that's made up for with a progressively-wound spring instead (http://www.velocitymotorcars.com/ima...over_d-131.jpg). However there are other coilover systems that seem to use an "ordinary" (for want of a better word - non-progressive?) main spring with no helpers at all, like the Ksports - http://media.photobucket.com/image/k.../k-sports1.jpg. How would they combat the problem? The way I see it, they'll work exactly like the Hottunings without a helper spring, except spring rate may be different.

Andrew: yeah the low thing is just all for looks. Yes it can be uncomfortable, and unsafe re: suspension travel, but on the road I just see it as a matter of the driver's restraint... it still drives and handles OK on the road, just don't be a maniac behind the wheel (pretty much the mentality behind driving a fast car). I'm pretty sure I will get flamed for this but I have the same opinion as you but in regards to power - I don't see the use in having so much power in a road car, unless it's also being used for the track. My 2.0L 8V Mk3 is slow (can I get an award for Most Obvious Quote please?) but it's enough to do the daily commute while still have some fun on a spirited run... (or maybe this is just the jealousy talking ).

[Jarred]

Ray I reckon you're right about the progressive springs on the koni's, the lighter wound stuff would keep the spring in contact with both perches at all time (well, i reckon atleast)

and if you think your 2.0 is slow, and has no power, wait till you have a drive on my GLD! you wont know yourself then!

[Preen59]

Ah, I didn't think of that way...

So what about coilover systems that originally don't use a helper spring? E.g. the Koni don't use a helper spring but I suppose that's made up for with a progressively-wound spring instead (http://www.velocitymotorcars.com/ima...over_d-131.jpg). However there are other coilover systems that seem to use an "ordinary" (for want of a better word - non-progressive?) main spring with no helpers at all, like the Ksports - http://media.photobucket.com/image/k.../k-sports1.jpg. How would they combat the problem? The way I see it, they'll work exactly like the Hottunings without a helper spring, except spring rate may be different.

Andrew: yeah the low thing is just all for looks. Yes it can be uncomfortable, and unsafe re: suspension travel, but on the road I just see it as a matter of the driver's restraint... it still drives and handles OK on the road, just don't be a maniac behind the wheel (pretty much the mentality behind driving a fast car). I'm pretty sure I will get flamed for this but I have the same opinion as you but in regards to power - I don't see the use in having so much power in a road car, unless it's also being used for the track. My 2.0L 8V Mk3 is slow (can I get an award for Most Obvious Quote please?) but it's enough to do the daily commute while still have some fun on a spirited run... (or maybe this is just the jealousy talking ).

It depends on the spring rate of the spring in that kit and the valving of the damper itself. I'm not going to go into it too deeply because i can't explain it all it one post as far as shock control and suspension balance etc goes, but...

In the case of the Hottunings, they have a very hard main spring, so the main spring has little sag (how much the spring compresses when from being static to when the vehicle is placed on the ground) compared to a regular run of the mill street car spring, hence what i said about the helper spring in my last post..

Now, if you have a softer spring it will sag more, which in turn means it can extend further on an uneven surface and can help follow the road better. Then you can have your shock control to suit more on the handling side..

Springs and suspension is very, very complicated. Not all springs are the same. There are many variables eg: Overall diameter, material diameter, number of coils, spring material, heat treatment etc. And then you have the dampers...