Backo n H's Mk1 build

[Backo]

You won't get a 16v or 20v head to fit your block, you'll need the complete engine. The 2.0 16v is a rare motor in Oz so you might have to do some research to find one. They did come out in Seat Cupra's so keep an eye open for one. I've just picked up a Cupra track car and I'm going to swap the mechanicals into my road going MK1 so I'll be following your progress with great interest.

Have a look at Peter Jones's thread, he's already done what you're planning to do.

Another Wreck, another Race Car.....

You might get lucky and find an old 1600 motor that was setup for F2 racing years ago. They were quick but I don't know how reliable they were, might be a one race wonder then rebuild. I've also heard of a 1600 that ran a crank from a 1300 but with bigger pistons to get back to the 1600 limit. Supposedly good for 10,000 rpm all day long. There's a video somewhere on Youtube showing it leading a V8 Rover Touring Car from race start to finish in a Classic car race.

Cheers

Paul

More valuable info, thanks Paul. I'm on a steep learning curve here with Euro cars.
I have been over that thread a couple of times but I need to do so again.
Got a link to the video?

Cool project. Good luck with it. If you need to source parts let me know.

That manifold is for a single DCOE/Solex/Delorto.

You can make 200hp out of a 16v. It will take some cash and time but it's doable. You should also remember that with the bore/stroke ratio these engines make tremendous torque. HP isn't everything.

Thanks Chris. I did find a DCOE 45 in the car yesterday that will probably be used at some point. Needs a rebuild kit through it but it should work well. PM inbound mate.

I downloaded the tech regs for the Targa Australia series last night and have had a quick look through it. Sopke to H today and he is super keen. Tarmac Rally here we come!

[sports racer]

You won't get a 16v or 20v head to fit your block, you'll need the complete engine. The 2.0 16v is a rare motor in Oz so you might have to do some research to find one. They did come out in Seat Cupra's so keep an eye open for one. I've just picked up a Cupra track car and I'm going to swap the mechanicals into my road going MK1 so I'll be following your progress with great interest.

Have a look at Peter Jones's thread, he's already done what you're planning to do.

Another Wreck, another Race Car.....

You might get lucky and find an old 1600 motor that was setup for F2 racing years ago. They were quick but I don't know how reliable they were, might be a one race wonder then rebuild. I've also heard of a 1600 that ran a crank from a 1300 but with bigger pistons to get back to the 1600 limit. Supposedly good for 10,000 rpm all day long. There's a video somewhere on Youtube showing it leading a V8 Rover Touring Car from race start to finish in a Classic car race.

Cheers

Paul

[Peter Jones]

If I were to build a dedicated hill climber starting with what you've got there...

• Build the car as light as possible, absolutely minimal nothing but an oil warning lamp on the dash, 1 seat and controls.
• Chuck away the stock wiring and reinstall just enough to make it run
• 13" x 10 wheels running very soft wets
• Don't bother with upgrading the brakes just make sure they work so you can stop when it's over. Maybe GTI calipers up front, they'll still fit under the 13s.
• I'd initially run the 1600 to set the car up and get used it.
• If 2.0L is an option then I'd be thinking really hard about the NA 20V motors with the aluminium block.They're really cheap now. Bang some carbs on and go.

That's making a lot of assumptions of course.

Do you intend to register it or trailer it to the track?

There's a fair difference between building for hillclimb vs sprint if you're taking it to the extreme. You'll have to lean towards one or the other and if there's compromises to be made favour the type of racing you most prefer.

I could blather on about all manner of technical stuff but really you need to put it all together and see what you need to change to suit you and your driving style.

Take a look around the Berg Cup site for some ideas. Berg-Cup e.V. - Spaß am Berg - Willkommen beim Berg-Cup e.V. - Gruppe H

There's so much you could do with this.

Main thing is to do it your way and get out there and have some fun with it.

[Backo]

If I were to build a dedicated hill climber starting with what you've got there...

• Build the car as light as possible, absolutely minimal nothing but an oil warning lamp on the dash, 1 seat and controls. May be heading towards Tarmac rally now, but this is the general idea. Bare minimum required
• Chuck away the stock wiring and reinstall just enough to make it run Complete new harness will be made up
• 13" x 10 wheels running very soft wets Got heaps of wheels, will have to stocktake it all
• Don't bother with upgrading the brakes just make sure they work so you can stop when it's over. Maybe GTI calipers up front, they'll still fit under the 13s.
• I'd initially run the 1600 to set the car up and get used it. Thats the initial plan
• If 2.0L is an option then I'd be thinking really hard about the NA 20V motors with the aluminium block.They're really cheap now. Bang some carbs on and go. What models were these in? Exactly the info I'm after thanks.

That's making a lot of assumptions of course.

Do you intend to register it or trailer it to the track? Will be on at least club rego however depending on distance, will probably be towing it.

There's a fair difference between building for hillclimb vs sprint if you're taking it to the extreme. You'll have to lean towards one or the other and if there's compromises to be made favour the type of racing you most prefer.

I could blather on about all manner of technical stuff but really you need to put it all together and see what you need to change to suit you and your driving style.

Take a look around the Berg Cup site for some ideas. Berg-Cup e.V. - Spaß am Berg - Willkommen beim Berg-Cup e.V. - Gruppe H Lots of reading there thanks, but how to English it? I will sort that out later

There's so much you could do with this.

Main thing is to do it your way and get out there and have some fun with it.

Cheers Peter. We need to sit down and sort out a definite direction here. Thanks for the info and encouragement

[Peter Jones]

Tarmac rally is a different game again, you'll need it registered for the transfer stages so it'll have to be roadworthy.

A roll cage is pretty essential too.

Strong 14" wheels are the way to go for road rally use. 14 x 6 are really common for Golfs, pick a style you can get lots of.

Later Golfs and Passats came with the NA 20v motors, I'll look up the models when I get a chance.

You can use the Google Chrome browser and it'll translate for you. Generally I just look at the videos.

Best person on here to talk rally is Geoff Hale, he's really competitive in the HRA scene in his 1600 Golf.

[sports racer]

All aluminium motor? You're talking about the 1.8 20v aren't you. For a minute I was hoping you found a cheap source of aluminium blocks to suit my ABF head.

Why do you recommend 14" wheels? For normal road use I've found 15" with 50 profile to be better handling over 14's with 60 profile tyres. Admittedly I don't race but I do push hard enough through corners to occasionally slide.

[gldgti]

All aluminium motor? You're talking about the 1.8 20v aren't you. For a minute I was hoping you found a cheap source of aluminium blocks to suit my ABF head.

Why do you recommend 14" wheels? For normal road use I've found 15" with 50 profile to be better handling over 14's with 60 profile tyres. Admittedly I don't race but I do push hard enough through corners to occasionally slide.

14" wheels hive you a much better overall suspension package in a mk1 -touge! A mk1 doesn't have heaps of suspension travel on the front, and the extra tyre flex helps to keep contact with the road on bumps.
In my experience, on the road, 14's on a mk1 is faster than 15's. When you can guarantee a smooth road, OK sure you might find some advantages with larger diameter wheels, but roads are typically very bumpy, particularly when you are going fast!

[sports racer]

You tell me this on the day after I've sold my 14's?

Next you'll be telling me how much better a turbo diesel will be in my MK1 over my 2.0 16v with twin 40's re driving 200 ks each day.

If only I had a well sorted turbo diesel MK1 cabby instead of my MK2.

[gldgti]

Lol, still for sale. Unfortunately I have 3 cars and only enough garage for 2

[Peter Jones]

Yes the ABF head will go the aluminium block but it's not a simple exercise, much easier to use the 20v head. Also consider the newer, smaller capacity motors they've got good numbers and are very light. Having said that though the 1600 is still a very competitive motor.

I would choose 14" wheels for tarmac racing. Rims and tyres are cheap and you're going to use a lot of both of them.

The 14s will be more durable and you'll stand a greater chance of finishing the sections.

The quality of the tyres will impact handling more than the profile.

There's no need to go nuts with tyre sizes 185/60/14 on a stock MK3 wheel is plenty and keeps all the suspension geometry working right.

Keep an eye out for second hand semi slicks or splash out and buy some new ones. Toyo R888s are my preference but Yokohama and others make great tyres too.

Semi slicks are the single biggest handling improvement you can make. Doesn't matter how much you spend on suspension if the tyres aren't up to it.