Polo GTI High Oil Usage - Discussion Thread

[gavs]

Thanks for the reply. So if i understand what you are is that semi synthetics cant or should not be used in these engines? I thought Penrite Enviro was a SEMI synthetic?? What was your thoughts on the "harder" run in method? I always thought that a new engine had a need for a oil that helps bed in the rings?which is why i thought you could use a semi synthetic (in place of a unavailable mineral oil). ta

CAN'T, CAN'T, CAN'T, CAN'T.

You cannot run ANY other oil in the engine, -irrespective of what some flog at a VGA dealership tells you- other than what is on the approved oils list for 504/507 oils.

The 504/507 oils have detergent like properties due to the direct injection systems of these types of engines. Unlike older type fuel injection where the fuel is sprayed into the intake tract of the cylinders, direct injection is sprayed directly into the cylinders. This results in a high build up of carbon and sludge in the uper valve train as the valves etc are no longer getting cleaned by the incoming fuel mist. Mix the carbon with the excessive blow-by these engines get and you need your oil to be working very hard to clean the engine as well as lubricate. this is why you should not be using the 502 standard oils in engines that state 504/507. Iv'e seen photos of a stripped GTI engine out of SA and it looked like a diesel with EGR and no DPF fitted to it because the owner thought that they knew best about what oil to use...

[jivebug]

Thanks for the informative reply, so does the full synthetics let the piston rings bed in and does one use the "hard" method of running in? These are two important questions for me as is what is the right km`s the "first" oil change should be?. Some would say 1500km (rather then 15000km) and is the"krud" in the oil really left over by the running in period (assuming full synthetic oil has a biting effect?) Thanks again

[Martin]

Modern engines don't have a "run in" procedure or requirement
You can choose how you treat the engine in it's early life/km

May car's first service was at 15,000km
I've got a PDF copy from a 2007 VW Golf 2.0L - first service at 8,000km

The VW driver education days used brand new cars, these were all driven hard
they were taken all around the country and put through 2 or 3 days at each location with two classes per day
None of these cars showed any ill effects from these exercises
These cars are then given to dealers to sell as demonstrators

There is no "krud" in the oil (even if there was, the oil filter should deal with it)

[Transporter]

Modern engines don't have a "run in" procedure or requirement
You can choose how you treat the engine in it's early life/km

May car's first service was at 15,000km
I've got a PDF copy from a 2007 VW Golf 2.0L - first service at 8,000km

The VW driver education days used brand new cars, these were all driven hard
they were taken all around the country and put through 2 or 3 days at each location with two classes per day
None of these cars showed any ill effects from these exercises
These cars are then given to dealers to sell as demonstrators

There is no "krud" in the oil (even if there was, the oil filter should deal with it)

That's what you think, but it's not always like that.
The oil filter could get easily overcome by the contamination that it has to filtrate out (depending from the driving condition and the environment), then the by pass valve (part of the lubrication system) will open and you get unfiltered oil circulating through the engine, but regardless if the o/filter is clean or dirty, every engine get the dose of unfiltered (dirty) oil during the start up and warming up period due to the restriction in flow (cold oil doesn't flow as easily).

I don't recall when I saw the engine in a bad condition, which would have an oil change religiously every 6 months.
But I see many of those who change oil every 15,000km/12 months (usually more than that, because people who do once a year service very often stretch that a bit longer).

[gavs]

Engines are pre run-in before fitted to cars anyway but my personal method was hard, then drop the oil at 6000kms. I now average about 1L/10,000kms of oil consumption, BUT!!!

It is a well know fact that irrespective of the method used to "run in" the engine, it's the poor manufacturing of these engines that lead to oil consumption, not how it is run in.

[kevinctr]

Hi, i am sorry if it has been asked many times before but how did you run in your 2nd engine? I am so sick of trying to get information off ANYONE concerning the CORRECT running in procedure and part of that is other questions like: Do you use semi synthetic because I cant find mineral oil 5w-30 504-507 spec?. Penrite Enviro semi syn came to mind IF one was to go down the "different way" to run in a engine. NO ONE at the Dealership or VW Australia or various mechanics would say if VW use different "running in oil" or the usual stuff for new or rebuilt engines? For example:
does one with a rebuilt engine drain whatever was originally put in with say a Semi Synthetic mentioned above if so for how long? Would one take the "harder version" (load/deceleration thing) of running in straight after swapping to the semi, likewise for how long? Would one change the semi after 1500km and if so then back to full syn or a bit longer on the semi (till the rings have bedded in?) Is everything bull**** and one just leaves the oil in it comes with and run it in by the book till you reach 15000km or whatever ?? Any correct information would be greatly appreciated (for my friend)

From the huge numbers in complaints over oil consumption from owners of every models of VW around the world, I came to the conclusion the gentle engine break in do not work. My chances of having an oil burning engine is 50% be it gentle or hard run in I concluded.

This is my method of running in my MY12 PGTI and I will report back the results as time goes by.
100km- Load up the engine on various gears below 3000rpm with half throttle.
200km- Occasional full thottle to 5000rpm and load the engine up on manual mode 7th gear with half throttle from 1500rpm tilll 5000rpm.
300km- Find a small hill and climb up using the highest gear possible on manual mode. example 3rd gear 2000rpm 1/4 throttle till peak then cruise down on 2nd gear using engine brake most of the time.
350km - Short burst of sprinting on a long straight road reving till Redline from 1st till 5th gear or speed of around 200km/h then use engine brake to slow to 40km/h then 200km/h again. Total of 3 times. Trying to let the clutch plates settle in also.
500km- Change oil and original filter out replace with cheap American Mobil 1 5W30.
500km- 2 full power dyno run done to get a baseline power.
500-1100km- Drive as normal but daily redline on at least first 3 gears.
1100km- Change oil & filter again using cheap American Mobil 1 5W30. Change gearbox oil!!!
1100km- Did 3 times 0-225km/h pull on the straight highway with 5mins cooling down in between. Did not want to stress the engine too much so let off at 225km/h. Vmax shd be 230km/h.
2100km- Went on highway cross country to fully stretch out the engine and brakes. Did a total of approximately 800km averaging 140-200km/h
2900km- Done a total of 1800km and check the dipstick with engine fully warmed up and parked for 5mins. Still around the max mark or 95% on the dipstick
2920km- Change oil and filter again with Mobil 1 5W30 and planning to go to the same dyno for a power run to compare with the power curve during the previous run.

25,000km - Always on Mobil1 5w30ESP 504/507specs and oil change every 5000km. Never moved below "B" point.
***Latest report, so far 4 VW have used this method here and uses only 500ml of oil every 10,000km.***

Points to note.
1. Make sure your oil is at least 88 degrees celcius before you load or rev up your engine.
2. DO NOT IDLE your engine for more than 5mins. Switch it off and restart if possible.
3. After every hard rev, try to use engine brake(select M mode) to slow the car for a few seconds each time.
4. Even though the GTI has a power assisted water circulation system to cool the turbo bearing down when engine is shut off, try to idle the car for 1min before shutting it down.
5. If you have a mountain around your area, drive up using the highest gear possible and keep rpm to below 3000rpm. Cruise down using engine brake then drive straight to a workshop to have the oil changed out.
6. Follow my method at your own risk but oil change done more often wont hurt anything other than your wallet.

[kaanage]

From someone who has had 2 6R GTi's and ran them in identically:

Quotes for the truth! My first red gti hardly used much oil I think I was 1lt down at 5k km with a full self oil change. My new white gti guzzles through the oil . at 5k Kms I had consumed at least 1.5-2lt of oil and I am at 21k Kms now and I have lost count how many times I have had to self top up. Right now its low on oil again and I have to take another trip to the dealer for more oil, so I can do a full oil change. I ran in both cars in the exact same fashion and that's hard from the get go and drive the in the same manner. Unfortunately after owning two of these cars , I take it as part and parcel of ownership and just deal with it. I could easily go back to a dealer and crack a hissy fit about consumption, but I have very little time to bother and have the car off the road with all the hassle. I might get a proper sample for a full oil analysis this time round.

[jivebug]

Thanks for the info everyone. I gather Mobil1 ESP is full synthetic (just cheaper quality??) Ta

[brad]

Thanks for the info everyone. I gather Mobil1 ESP is full synthetic (just cheaper quality??) Ta

Mobil1 quality is fine. Price is good if you know where to look.

504.00/507.00 has come down in price in the last 5 years and there isn't a lot of difference between shell / Penrite / etc

[RoknRob]

From the huge numbers in complaints over oil consumption from owners of every models of VW around the world, I came to the conclusion the gentle engine break in do not work. My chances of having an oil burning engine is 50% be it gentle or hard run in I concluded.

This is my method of running in my MY12 PGTI and I will report back the results as time goes by.
100km- Load up the engine on various gears below 3000rpm with half throttle.
200km- Occasional full thottle to 5000rpm and load the engine up on manual mode 7th gear with half throttle from 1500rpm tilll 5000rpm.
300km- Find a small hill and climb up using the highest gear possible on manual mode. example 3rd gear 2000rpm 1/4 throttle till peak then cruise down on 2nd gear using engine brake most of the time.
350km - Short burst of sprinting on a long straight road reving till Redline from 1st till 5th gear or speed of around 200km/h then use engine brake to slow to 40km/h then 200km/h again. Total of 3 times. Trying to let the clutch plates settle in also.
500km- Change oil and original filter out replace with cheap American Mobil 1 5W30.
500km- 2 full power dyno run done to get a baseline power.
500-1100km- Drive as normal but daily redline on at least first 3 gears.
1100km- Change oil & filter again using cheap American Mobil 1 5W30. Change gearbox oil!!!
1100km- Did 3 times 0-225km/h pull on the straight highway with 5mins cooling down in between. Did not want to stress the engine too much so let off at 225km/h. Vmax shd be 230km/h.
2100km- Went on highway cross country to fully stretch out the engine and brakes. Did a total of approximately 800km averaging 140-200km/h
2900km- Done a total of 1800km and check the dipstick with engine fully warmed up and parked for 5mins. Still around the max mark or 95% on the dipstick
2920km- Change oil and filter again with Mobil 1 5W30 and planning to go to the same dyno for a power run to compare with the power curve during the previous run.

25,000km - Always on Mobil1 5w30ESP 504/507specs and oil change every 5000km. Never moved below "B" point.
***Latest report, so far 4 VW have used this method here and uses only 500ml of oil every 10,000km.***

Points to note.
1. Make sure your oil is at least 88 degrees celcius before you load or rev up your engine.
2. DO NOT IDLE your engine for more than 5mins. Switch it off and restart if possible.
3. After every hard rev, try to use engine brake(select M mode) to slow the car for a few seconds each time.
4. Even though the GTI has a power assisted water circulation system to cool the turbo bearing down when engine is shut off, try to idle the car for 1min before shutting it down.
5. If you have a mountain around your area, drive up using the highest gear possible and keep rpm to below 3000rpm. Cruise down using engine brake then drive straight to a workshop to have the oil changed out.
6. Follow my method at your own risk but oil change done more often wont hurt anything other than your wallet.

This is crazily complicated! Something new every 50 to 250kms!

I wish I had time to be this vigilant! (or should I say obsessive? )

It really shouldn't have to be this hard.

Personally, I would say run it in by the book. At least then you can say you did.

I ran mine in hard, and the oil keeps disappearing.

For what it is worth, I tried VW LongLife (when it was Castrol), Shell Helix Ultra Extra, and Fuchs Titan. The Shell oil disappeared less quickly in my car, though still very borderline...