The old stone damaged condenser story, or not.

[adavis12]

Hi everyone,
I just thought I’d post a bit of a warning/instructive on how to ensure you aren’t being taken for a ride with regards to the well documented failures/damage of the AC condenser in many VAG group cars.

In October I noticed that the AC in my MY2015 polo, which had travelled less than 19000km had stopped working entirely. See picture below to demonstrate its condition.



The car was due for it’s two year service, so I notified my mechanic (top bloke 10/10) about it and asked him to take a look. He confirmed the condenser was leaking with a regas/sniff test but did not do any work on it, suggesting that I take it to a dealer to have a warranty inspection carried out as it did not appear to be damaged.

I tried initially booking it in at the place of purchase, but I was cut off mid-sentence twice by the guy on the phone who was talking to someone else at the time so I gave up on them. I then booked it in at another local dealer and was very quickly booked in. All good. On the morning of drop off I explained to the service rep that the condenser was leaking and I would like it inspected for warranty, I also made it clear that I was not in any rush and it would be alright to take as long as necessary for the issue to be resolved. This was on a Monday at ~730am. At 1pm I received a call from the service rep stating that the TX valve was faulty, and it would be replaced under warranty, the part had been ordered and was scheduled for same day delivery, but the car may not be ready by COB. I was a little concerned as I had previously been told that the condenser was faulty by someone that I trust, but hey I’m not going to argue with VW if they’re giving me a warranty. I was informed I would be called regardless to be updated. I wasn’t, but it was the day before a public holiday, and having worked in a service industry for 10 years I know things can get out of hand.

At 1220pm on the Wednesday I received another call from the same rep, this time informing me that the fault was actually caused by stone damage to the condenser(!!!) and as such it would not be warranty. I was aware of this as a common issue and had no reason to doubt the assessment, I did however refuse their replacement quote, of $1260 for the TX valve(!!!!!) and the condenser, firstly as I would not have been able to pay it and secondly because I believed it excessive. I was informed there would be a $220 diagnostic fee which I agreed to and did pay.

On Thursday I received a call at 830am from the service rep, which I missed, asking for me to contact them urgently. Twice I attempted to contact them but couldn’t get in touch and was told they would get back to me. Not knowing what the call was about I couldn’t get help from anyone else at the dealer despite their offers. I gave up as I had other things to do and figured that if it was actually important I would be contacted.

Fast forward to Sunday. While cleaning my car I noticed this:




This is presumably why I had been contacted, the skid plate had been left off the underside of my car. Now this irritated me considerably, but again, I can understand that mistakes happen so I wasn’t about to go ballistic. What I found next however really got me though. Close inspection of the front of the car showed two things, firstly the bumper had not been removed (evidenced by leaves and crap sitting in the area at the front of the condenser, which have been there for several months, which would have been removed if the bumper was taken off). Secondly, I noted the impact damage presumably identified in the inspection:

While I am not a refrigeration expert, I know how they function and was extremely doubtful that the damage seen was the cause of the leak. Further to this research showed that the TX valve is located at the firewall in my car, and it would be impossible for a stone to damage it, and almost impossible for a damaged condenser to damage the TX valve. This in itself raises issues with the diagnostic service and thus the fee paid, as well as the quote given. If the TX valve actually needed replacing, it should have been done under warranty, and further to this the diagnostic fee probably should have been waived as there was an identified warranty issue.

I returned to the dealer at ~745 the following morning (in peak hour traffic) and spoke to a different service rep. I stated that I would like to collect the skid plate. Twice the rep returned to ask for my keys to replace the skid plate and twice I refused, firstly as I was in a rush, and secondly because I reasonably didn’t want them working on my car. I also made it clear to the rep that I was unhappy and unconvinced with the service provided, and that if in having the condenser replaced it was found that the leak was not caused by impact damage I would be returning to recover the service fee as well as be reimbursed for the cost of the condenser. I provided the invoice and the rep left to discuss with the service rep I had dealt with a week prior. Through the glass doors I saw and heard the conversation take place with words to the effect of “it’s stone damage not warranty" being said. At this point I noticed a mechanic attempting to look under my car to verify the lack of skid plate, I went outside and opened my bonnet where I was met with “you can’t see it from there, you need to look under the car” (!!!!!!!!!!!). I returned to inside and was given the skid plate, mounting hardware and the service invoice I had provided. No apology was offered, and no attempt was made to address my concerns that I had raised.

Extremely (I could fill a page with expletives) irritated at this point I left in peak hour traffic to get to work on time. In a crackthe***** moment I booked the car in to have the condenser replaced the following week at my mechanic. Firstly, the TX valve was perfectly functional (!!!!!!!!!!!!) and post removal inspection of the condenser showed that it was extremely unlikely the leak was caused by stone damage, and PAG oil residue (for those that don’t know, this is a lubricant in the refrigerant) on the RHS and centre of the condenser suggested this was where the leak was coming from. Further to this there was impact damage to the top RH corner of the condenser and this can only be explained by a fault prior to or during initial installation (as it sits behind an intrusion bar under the bonnet, and this kind of damage would require a significant impact, something that this car has never seen).



Seeing red, I called the service manager at the dealer and arranged to talk to them the following day in their office. I refused to discuss the issue on the phone as I wanted to show them the condenser in person. The meeting was a bit of a joke really, the manager was rude, arrogant and dismissive. It was only at the point where I put the condenser on the desk in front of them and highlighted the evidence that some reason/respect was returned to the conversation. I was left in the managers office while they went to discuss with the mechanics, and was told that photos were taken during testing, however these have never been provided. While falling well short of admitting fault the manager did agree to retest the condenser. I was also finally given an apology with regards to the indisputable screw up that was the lack of skid plate. Later that afternoon I received a video from the managers phone, that while blurry because of compression, was able to identify the location of the leak. Comparing the location to photos I retained of the condenser showed that the leak was in the central region of the condenser as demonstrated in the photo:



part 1/2 (just waiting for mod approval of the second bit!)

[adavis12]

My copy of this photo is 16MP, taken with a quality camera, in good light, with a good lens on the morning of the meeting. It very, very clearly shows a lack of damage to the condenser in the region of the leak. I spoke to the manager again this morning, and firstly admitted that the leak was in the central region not on the RHS as asserted by me, but reiterated that my claim was not affected in anyway. The leak is in a region free of damage (and actually sits behind the intrusion bar when installed in the car) and as such the condenser should have been warrantied. The manager is aware that I am seeking, (and will be receiving) a refund for the defective service provided by their workshop and also a reimbursement for the full amount of the replacement condenser that was installed as a result of this service. As of right now, I am still waiting on a resolution, but I’m pretty confident in a favourable outcome, even if that means escalating the issue through VW, CAV, the ACCC and VTAC.

So what to take from this very, very verbose rant:
If you find your car AC not working and it is under warranty, make it abundantly clear that you expect any assessment to include the removal of the front bumper, and you expect photo or video evidence of the condenser leaking at a point of stone damage. Further to this, make sure you thoroughly inspect the condenser yourself, not all of it is visible with the bumper installed, but a fair chunk, and that which is exposed to impact is. If you see a dirty great big hole in a refrigerant core, don’t even bother attempting to get it warrantied as it is not going to happen. I am writing all this, as I suspect that unfortunately many workshops may take the easy route, because warranty paperwork sucks, and will just claim stone damage if there are any bent fins on the condenser. This is reprehensible conduct in my eyes and I hope to prevent in from happening to anyone else. Also, if you feel you’ve been taken for a ride, and have evidence to support your claims, you have the protections of Australian Consumer Law on your side, in particular, your right to expect a refund for defective goods/services and also a right to expect reimbursement for reasonable costs associated with rectification of a defective service.

Lastly, shop around. It was cheaper to pay the dealer $220 for a diagnostic fee and take the care elsewhere for condenser replacement than to pay them their quoted fee of $1260. Despite what a dealer may say, you are not restricted to use dealer workshops in order to maintain the warranty on your car (and in most cases, any inferences as such are heavily frowned upon by the ACCC).

[Umai Naa!!]

The calamity of errors aside, it is an unusual failure. The leak at the cap for the receiver drier would've been the obvious place to start, though.

Having said that, I have replaced a few due to actual stone damage. It's unfortunate, but it happens.

[adavis12]

here is part two of the above which has gone AWOL:

My copy of this photo is 16MP, taken with a quality camera, in good light, with a good lens on the morning of the meeting. It very, very clearly shows a lack of damage to the condenser in the region of the leak. I spoke to the manager again this morning, and firstly admitted that the leak was in the central region not on the RHS as asserted by me, but reiterated that my claim was not affected in anyway. The leak is in a region free of damage (and actually sits behind the intrusion bar when installed in the car) and as such the condenser should have been warrantied. The manager is aware that I am seeking, (and will be receiving) a refund for the defective service provided by their workshop and also a reimbursement for the full amount of the replacement condenser that was installed as a result of this service. As of right now, I am still waiting on a resolution, but I’m pretty confident in a favourable outcome, even if that means escalating the issue through VW, CAV, the ACCC and VCAT.

So what to take from this very, very verbose rant:
If you find your car AC not working and it is under warranty, make it abundantly clear that you expect any assessment to include the removal of the front bumper, and you expect photo or video evidence of the condenser leaking at a point of stone damage. Further to this, make sure you thoroughly inspect the condenser yourself, not all of it is visible with the bumper installed, but a fair chunk, and that which is exposed to impact is. If you see a dirty great big hole in a refrigerant core, don’t even bother attempting to get it warrantied as it is not going to happen. I am writing all this, as I suspect that unfortunately some workshops may take the easy route, because warranty paperwork sucks, and will just claim stone damage if there are any bent fins on the condenser. This is reprehensible conduct in my eyes and I hope to prevent in from happening to anyone else. Also, if you feel you’ve been taken for a ride, and have evidence to support your claims, you have the protections of Australian Consumer Law on your side, in particular, your right to expect a refund for defective goods/services and also a right to expect reimbursement for reasonable costs associated with rectification of a defective service.

Lastly, shop around. It was cheaper to pay the dealer $220 for a diagnostic fee and take the car elsewhere for condenser replacement than to pay them their quoted fee of $1260. Despite what a dealer may say, you are not restricted to use dealer workshops in order to maintain the warranty on your car (and in most cases, any inferences as such are heavily frowned upon by the ACCC).

The calamity of errors aside, it is an unusual failure. The leak at the cap for the receiver drier would've been the obvious place to start, though.

Having said that, I have replaced a few due to actual stone damage. It's unfortunate, but it happens.

correct, in my initial meeting with the manager they indicated that it was leaking from the the receiver cap.

[adavis12]

very long story short, after no luck with the dealer directly i raised the issue with VW australia and they sorted it for me. I was reimbursed for the diagnostic fee and the replacement of the condenser. hopefully the dealer will be weary of pulling this kind of rubbish again after the headache that i caused them by calling them on it.

[Hillbilly]

He will be weary of it all right and will be wary next time a similar problem arises