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Thread: Bi-Xenons with LED running lights - upgrade to non-xenon cars?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Sydney, Australia
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    Users Country Flag

    I personally find it annoying that none of these guys ever offer "the full kit". If they did, MAYBE it'd then be possible to install by the "adventurous" forum members!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mona Vale NSW
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    If I had the option of having a car with Xenons for immediate delivery, I wouldn't have hesitated. Retrofitting is just too hard to keep it legal. Then again, that doesn't stop a lot of people doing it. I know a few owners with retrofitted xenons on their MkVs. Some would argue as long as it looks stock and you haven't gone for BMW-esque corona rings, you may escape scrutiny, especially if they're properly adjusted. The worst ones are cheap retrofitted xenon bulbs that are the wrong colour (>5000K) in reflector units that scatter light everywhere (there's a Corolla and a Civic that live near me with them- horrible).

    I love the xenons on my Golf. Makes a massive difference driving in the country. Not having them on the Polo isn't too big a deal as the standard halogens don't throw a bad light.

    Thanks for pointing out the ebay link though I know my friend who also has a Polo GTI is interested.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Ringwood, Victoria
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    To give people an idea of why levelers etc are required under the ADR, we consistantly see with lights (mainly aftermarket driving lights) up to a 400% increase in beam intensity and distance over halogens. Some of the HID / Xenon lights reach their fall-off at around 800m, halogen around 200-300m so if a beam of light travels that far from a Xenon (using reflector technology), a projector lense then focuses that light into a concentrated beam, not good for anyone travelling the other way!

    Hence why after being in a few cars with HIDs and outback driving at night, I will from now on pay for the HID / Xenon option

    Stage 2+ Intercooler Carbon Intake Downpipe Swaybar DV+ Remsa.

  4. #14
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    Yeah... the Golf R's Xenon lights are sensational! In fact, on country roads when you're driving around with the high beams on, if you come up to a "sharp" corner with lots of reflector signs (you know the big yellow and black, or white and black arrows), you have to TURN OFF the high beams because it BLINDS YOU! (the driver! lol). They're awesome

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ringwood, Victoria
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    Why you can't LEGALLY fit HID lights to your non HID car.

    This is a sticky in the Mk4 forum, but seeing as the conversation has started here, thought i'd put this here for all of those who just hang here


    Australian Design Rule 13/00 – Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles

    6.2.9. Other requirements

    The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45. In addition, with respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not be applied when these headlamps are installed.
    Paragraph 5.5.2 basically says that if a fitting won't work just by fitting a globe, it's not considered a light. (Ie optional driving lights that aren't fitted aren't lights etc).

    And regarding 6.2.6.2.2...


    Quote
    6.2.6.2.2. However, devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or non- continuously, shall be permitted, provided they have a stop positon at which the lamps can be returned to the initial inclination defined in paragraph 6.2.6.1.1. by means of the usual adjusting screws or similar means.
    These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driver's seat.
    Continually adjustable devices must have reference makes indicating the loading conditions that require adjustment of the dipped-beam.
    The number of positions on devices which are not continuously adjustable must be such as to ensure compliance with the range of values prescribed in paragraph 6.2.6.1.2. in all the loading conditions defined in Annex 5.
    For these devices also, the loading conditions of Annex 5 that require adjustment of the dipped-beam shall be clearly marked near the control of the device (see Annex .

    So according to 6.2.9, the part of clause 6.2.6.2.2 that states manual adjustment is permitted, is NOT permitted in the case of HID fitment, ie, manual adjustment isn't allowed. So that means you need to comply with the previous clause, which is shown below:


    Quote
    6.2.6.2.1. In the case where a headlamp levelling device is necessary to satisfy the requirements of paragraphs 6.2.6.1.1. and 6.2.6.1.2., the device shall be automatic.
    Therefore, automatic self levelling is required. (the two paragraphs mentioned refer to the actual specifications for beam angle etc).


    But what about ADR 45?, well that refers mainly to signal lamps, but it does outline the colour variations permitted for lighting. I haven't converted the numbers to easy to understand form, but basically, white has to be white, not blue, yellow or purple. Ie 10,000K HID's are illegal.

    Quote
    Australian Design Rule 45/01 – Lighting and Light Signalling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations

    45.2. GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS

    45.2.1. Lamps shall be so designed and constructed that in normal use, despite the vibrations to which they may then be subjected, they continue to function satisfactorily and retain the characteristics prescribed by this Rule.

    45.2.2. The colour of the light emitted shall be within the limits of the co-ordinates prescribed in Clause 45.2.2.1 for the colour in question.

    45.2.2.1. Colours of Lamps- Trichromatic Co-ordinates

    Photometric blah blah stuff.... Just keep it white (ie under 6500K).



    Then we get to the gas discharge specific ADR's.....



    Quote
    Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners

    6 GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS

    6.1 The headlamp cleaner shall be designed and constructed to clean those parts of the light-emitting surface of the headlamp which distribute the passing beam and the driving beam so that at least the cleaning effect specified in paragraph 7 below is achieved.

    6.2 The headlamp cleaner shall be furthermore so designed that:

    6.2.1 When parts of the headlamp cleaner in the rest position(s) are on the headlamps' illuminating surface, the photometric values of the headlamps, .... blah blah, not more than a 5% reduction in light output.....

    6.2.1.1 Paragraph 6.2.1. is not applicable when the headlamp and the parts of the headlamp cleaner referred to in paragraph 6.2.1. form a complete assembly during the approval of the headland;

    6.2.2 During operation, except in the rest position, the mechanical parts shall not cover more than:

    6.2.2.1 20 % of the illuminating surface of a passing lamp,

    6.2.2.2 10 % of the illuminating surface of a driving lamp with no high beam.

    6.2.3 It is able to operate at all temperatures between -10 degrees C and +35 degrees C and to operate satisfactorily at speeds between 0 and 130 km/h (or the maximum speed of the vehicle if it is below 130 km/h); .......... the cleaner shall remain undamaged if exposed to a temperature of -35 degrees C and of +80 degrees C respectively for a period of one hour;

    6.2.4 In normal use, in spite of the vibration to which it may be subjected, its satisfactory operation continues to be ensured;

    6.2.5 It will not be functionally damaged due to water, ice or snow accumulating on it during normal operation of the vehicle, even if the cleaning liquid is frozen; a temporary failure due to freezing or deposit of snow shall not be considered as damage, provided that the device can be made to work again by simple means;

    6.2.6 Elements which may come into contact with the cleaning fluid must be resistant against a mixture consisting of 50 % methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol and 50 % water;

    6.2.7 Its parts do not hinder the adjustment of the headlamps or the inserting or changing of filament lamps; if necessary, the cleaner or parts of it may be detachable, if they can be removed with simple tools.

    6.3 Parts of the headlamp cleaner which, in the rest position(s) and/or during operation, form part of the external surface of the vehicle, shall meet the following requirements:
    6.3.x. goes on to basically state that there are to be no no sharp or pointy parts, like bonnet scoops but scaled down..... Have a read for the details.

    Quote
    6.5 In case of approval of a vehicle the following requirements shall also be met:

    6.5.1 Cleaning of all passing (high beam) headlamps shall be compulsory. If there are more than two driving headlamps, the cleaning of one pair of these headlamps shall be sufficient;

    6.5.2 If the cleaner has a fluid container this may be combined with the fluid container for the windscreen washers and the rear window washer.......


    ADR 77 states the following items of interest:

    Quote
    Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps


    6.1.1 Headlamps shall be so made that with suitable gas-discharge light source they give adequate illuminance without dazzle when emitting the passing beam, and good illumination when emitting the driving beam.

    6.1.6 The trichromatic coordinates of the light of the beams emitted by headlamps using gas- discharge light sources must be in the following boundaries:

    limit towards:
    blue: x > 0.310
    yellow: x < 0.500
    green: y < 0.150 + 0.640x
    green: y < 0.440
    purple: y > 0.050 + 0.750x
    red: y > 0.382

    6.2.1 The passing beam must produce a sufficiently sharp "cut-off" to permit a satisfactory adjustment with it's aid. The "cut-off" must be a horizontal straight line on the side opposite to the direction of traffic for which the headlamp is intended: on the other side .....(it can't be too high or low)...... A cut-off extending above a combination of these lines shall in no circumstances be permitted.

    6.2.2.1 .....in the case of headlamps designed to meet the requirements of left-hand traffic, the "cut-off" on the right-half of the screen is horizontal.....
    So dazzle and light spill above the horizontal (slightly higher on the passenger side) is a no go.

    (If anyone can convert those trichromatic coordinates to a more 'real world' figure, I love you long time....)

    Quote
    6.2.5 Only one gas-discharge light source is permitted for each passing beam headlamp.
    So no doubling up of HID globes in your headlights. Levelling is taken care of in ADR 13 above. ('aint the labrynth of ADR's wonderful??)



    And ADR 78 basically goes into the specifics of globe design, specifics on the arc discharge (shape, photometrics etc) but I wouldn't worry too much about that, as long as you dont have blue or purple HID's.

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  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ringwood, Victoria
    Posts
    4,140
    Links Here:
    Third Edition Australian Design Rules
    Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 13/00 - Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles) 2005
    Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 45/01 - Lighting and Light Signalling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations) 2006


    HID Specifics:
    Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners) 2006
    Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps) 2006
    Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 78/00 - Gas Discharge Light Sources) 2006

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  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    259
    Users Country Flag

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ringwood, Victoria
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    4,140
    Ta ooops, not 10 characters.

    Stage 2+ Intercooler Carbon Intake Downpipe Swaybar DV+ Remsa.

  9. #19
    Guest Guest
    Ok so dont flame me as im abit of a noob and dont know much and ive got a quick questions,
    So ive seen that you can pick up a pair of the Polos GTI xenon lens online for about a grand, and i know that the HID lights are illegal to install without washers and other parts, BUT if i solely wanted them for the LED lights could i install a pair of the GTI headlight casings with the GTI lights and use my factory light bulbs and still make it legal, im not after the blue or white headlights i solely want it for the led lights, or am i dreaming and this is sill highly illegal

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
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    The Xenon lights are projection based.

    The halogen lights are reflective based.
    Even if the bulb fittings were the same (I don't know if they are or not), I can't imagine the light output of a halogen bulb is enough to work in a projection housing instead of a reflective housing. And either way, I think it's primarily the projection design which means you have a legal requirement to have washers and motors and leveling sensors etc, not the fact that the bulb is xenon. (Since there are non-projection Xenons such as from Mazda, Honda, even Subaru? which don't have washers/motors/leveling sensors etc)

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