anyone want to get rid of there standard sports pack spring?

[PUZ213]

that's why after the first time i did springs in my civic i changed to coilovers and never looked back. Springs over time screw ur dampers making it drive like a boat. Which leads to replacing the dampers which then costs more than just buying coilovers (spring and damper combo).



worth the investment

[Hail22]

that's why after the first time i did springs in my civic i changed to coilovers and never looked back. Springs over time screw ur dampers making it drive like a boat. Which leads to replacing the dampers which then costs more than just buying coilovers (spring and damper combo).



worth the investment

Who did you buy them from?

What sort of price is it for a set of 4.

Springs are easy to find but coilovers...eh.

[gavs]

that's why after the first time i did springs in my civic i changed to coilovers and never looked back. Springs over time screw ur dampers making it drive like a boat. Which leads to replacing the dampers which then costs more than just buying coilovers (spring and damper combo).



worth the investment

Only if the springs aren't matched to the factory rate and the dampers. Any proper spring manufacturer like kw, eibach, h&r will make their springs to match factory dampers. A coilover is no different, the damper aspect still wears out, maybe not as quickly, but it still does.

[kaanage]

Only if the springs aren't matched to the factory rate and the dampers. Any proper spring manufacturer like kw, eibach, h&r will make their springs to match factory dampers. A coilover is no different, the damper aspect still wears out, maybe not as quickly, but it still does.

Sorry to disagree on this one but lowering springs are guaranteed to have a higher rate than OE else the reduced suspension bump travel would make bottoming out much more likely if the OE spring rate was maintained. As PUZ213, went on to say, this works the OE dampers harder and wears them out much more quickly.

[Gti Dave]

Only if the springs aren't matched to the factory rate and the dampers. Any proper spring manufacturer like kw, eibach, h&r will make their springs to match factory dampers. A coilover is no different, the damper aspect still wears out, maybe not as quickly, but it still does.

I disagree as well. Lowering springs is in effect used to "lower" your car and because the shocks and struts are no longer operating within the original working height, the aftermarket lowering springs will always have a higher spring rate in order to compensate the reduced working height or travel to prevent bottoming out otherwise everyone with lowering springs with factory spec spring rate would bottom out constantly whenever they hit a bump and the car would feel a bit like a boat

[PUZ213]

Who did you buy them from?

What sort of price is it for a set of 4.

Springs are easy to find but coilovers...eh.

I got mines for 1550 at prestige performance. Coilies aren't hard to find, just need to look abit

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 PM ----------

I disagree as well. Lowering springs is in effect used to "lower" your car and because the shocks and struts are no longer operating within the original working height, the aftermarket lowering springs will always have a higher spring rate in order to compensate the reduced working height or travel to prevent bottoming out otherwise everyone with lowering springs with factory spec spring rate would bottom out constantly whenever they hit a bump and the car would feel a bit like a boat

Exactly right =)

[gavs]

Hmmm, interesting way of looking at it, but I can categorically say that the suspension engineers that sit directly above me only increase / decrease spring rates to go with specific dampers. To match factory dampers, the take a baseline force curve, work out the spring rates, decide if the spring needs to become progressive or not and then spec the spring.

True, the piston in the damper is no longer in it's original position but when the spring factory that makes VW factory fitted springs has a total height tolerance of >40mm in total, then who's to say where the correct piston position is in the damper.

I too used to think that changing the spring will shorten the service life of the damper but I have been categorically informed by many a suspension engineer that this is false. The damper is not progressive, it performs it's damping duties exactly the same no matter where in it's stroke. What will destroy the damper / strut is use outside of it's normal operating conditions, i.e driving down a corrugated road for long periods of time.

[Hail22]

Hmmm, interesting way of looking at it, but I can categorically say that the suspension engineers that sit directly above me only increase / decrease spring rates to go with specific dampers. To match factory dampers, the take a baseline force curve, work out the spring rates, decide if the spring needs to become progressive or not and then spec the spring.

True, the piston in the damper is no longer in it's original position but when the spring factory that makes VW factory fitted springs has a total height tolerance of >40mm in total, then who's to say where the correct piston position is in the damper.

I too used to think that changing the spring will shorten the service life of the damper but I have been categorically informed by many a suspension engineer that this is false. The damper is not progressive, it performs it's damping duties exactly the same no matter where in it's stroke. What will destroy the damper / strut is use outside of it's normal operating conditions, i.e driving down a corrugated road for long periods of time.

So in hindsight, if say I want a 25mm front drop with a 40mm rear drop I need not fear based upon what your engineers are hypothesising on?

[kaanage]

Hmmm, interesting way of looking at it, but I can categorically say that the suspension engineers that sit directly above me only increase / decrease spring rates to go with specific dampers. To match factory dampers, the take a baseline force curve, work out the spring rates, decide if the spring needs to become progressive or not and then spec the spring.

So how do they prevent bottoming?
Do they make a progressive winding where most of the travel is at the OE spring rate and then changes to a very high rate for the last portion of travel?
Or do they use longer, progressive bump stops like the Silasto ones used with race cars?

True, the piston in the damper is no longer in it's original position but when the spring factory that makes VW factory fitted springs has a total height tolerance of >40mm in total, then who's to say where the correct piston position is in the damper.

I too used to think that changing the spring will shorten the service life of the damper but I have been categorically informed by many a suspension engineer that this is false. The damper is not progressive, it performs it's damping duties exactly the same no matter where in it's stroke. What will destroy the damper / strut is use outside of it's normal operating conditions, i.e driving down a corrugated road for long periods of time.

No doubt about this IF the spring rate is the same as OE for all of the normally expected travel. Very few dampers are position dependant in operation.
The faster wear that has been discussed occurs when a higher rate spring is used with OE dampers as this works the damping mechanism harder in the rebound stage (regardless of the static position of the damper piston).

[gavs]

So in hindsight, if say I want a 25mm front drop with a 40mm rear drop I need not fear based upon what your engineers are hypothesising on?

Saying an engineer from fox racing is "hypothesising" might not go down to well... but yes, that is correct.

So how do they prevent bottoming?
Do they make a progressive winding where most of the travel is at the OE spring rate and then changes to a very high rate for the last portion of travel?
Or do they use longer, progressive bump stops like the Silasto ones used with race cars?

For a start, the bump stop is there to prevent bottoming out the damper. The silasto-type bump stops (basically foamed polyurethane)are what most OE manufacturers are moving towards, other than on leaf springs and specific chassis-mounted bump stops. Yes you are correct, the winding is a fixed rate until the last portion of travel where the spring helps to decelerate the piston in the damper/stiffen the ride on the compression stroke.

You are correct though Greg, if a spring is used that doesn't match the damper then it is going to decrease the life of the damper for sure and the reboud stroke is the bad one to try and have not matching because of the spring forcing the piston through the damper with more force than normal. BUT, this is only going to decrease the life of the damper if the damper overheats and aerates itself.