Sam's build thread

[sambb]

Thanks for the pics Andrew. In that second pic it really shows how close to the road the tree is. I don't know how he went from sliding through the fork to hitting the tree with his right rear so quickly - must have been a massive slapper he had on. I ddnt realise that he actually tore the Armco out of the ground and it wasn't there for our later runs. Man looking like at that its a miracle his tank didn't rupture or even tear fuel lines out or something as he went into vegetation. Don't think he'll be able to say a roo ran up the back of him.

[sambb]

Andrew did your speedo ever record your peak speeds - cant remember if you said you'd hooked that up or not.

[metalhead]

I checked it this morning, 139km/h. Not sure how accurate that is, it's gps based so tends to lag slightly behind actual speed. And I was also well down on speed compared to what I could have been, as looking at my in-car I never went flat through turn 1, and slowed down early and more than I needed to for both the fork and the eases. I'd expect Geoff was going faster than that.

[Sydneykid]

In Improved Production I campaigned heavily about removing safety limitations as a method determining a car's category/class eligibility. For example we used to have limitations on roll cages extending outside the passengers compartment, until the threat of lower leg damage was pointed out. Personally I was pretty lucky to survive a multiple roll over at Fairbairn Park in a car without a roll cage, because of category/class limitations. It's well overdue that that stupidity was removed.

There will be an Official's report on the accident and I would suggesting insisting on it being brought forward at the next NSW Hillclimb Advisory Panel.


Cheers
Gary

[metalhead]

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing stopping safety gear in Road Reg except for the issue of being road registered and required to present to vehicle in a roadworthy/road legal state. Makes a full cage very difficult, a half cage is reasonably doable, but particularly for a car with back seats requires engineering certificates and having the car re-registered as a 2 seater. I can't really imagine anyone complaining if you were to show up with a bolt in roll bar/cage, given you could bolt it in for the event and remove it when you got home - but by the rules they could. Seats are another discussion. Harnesses should be fine as long as the standard belts are retained. I guess an exemption in the rules for safety equipment could be made, but then they run the risk of upsetting relationships with police/community if that person should drive their car around or to and from the event and be pulled over. Not sure there's an easy answer. For me, I will be getting a bolt in half cage before long (was already my plan, I started talking to a local cage builder a few months ago), but as my car is a two seater that presents far less difficulty than it does for most others in the road reg classes.

[Sydneykid]

The problem is this reg

Cars must have full road registration, registration papers must be presented at scrutineering. The car as presented must be able to pass registration check.

What the reg should say is The car as presented must be able to pass registration check excluding any safety related items fitted as per CAMS General Requirements. eg; roll cage, driver's seat, seat belt, fire extinguisher etc.

Transport to and from the event is solely the entrant's responsibility. That reg wording currently prevents people from trailering otherwise eligible road registered vehicles. Limiting safety shouldn't be used as a way to determine what class/category the car fits into. Classes/categories are about splitting relative car performance, it should never be a split based on how safe they are.

Cheers
Gary

[metalhead]

Agreed. The majority of Road Reg entrants trailer their cars as it is, as insurance in case of breakage.

[sambb]

yep that's exactly it. I had a guy threaten to protest me because I'd taken my back seats out. I told him he was an appendage, he told me I wouldn't pass rego like that. I said its a hatch and the seats are designed to be removable and they do not form a firewall and he left it alone, but at the next meet he quoted that exact bit, that I had to be able to pass rego then and there. No one will protest you Andrew for having the harness and seat (now that that d**k is gone) but if he comes back he could.
I'm really torn with what to do. I don't think I can run a harness with the shape of my upper seat. I'm open to thoughts on that. I can easily put a harness anchor right at the back of the boot or even get a weld in rear strut brace and come off that. But with stock seat (not legal to have a 1 piece in a hatch that's not an engineered 2 seater) I could only run a 4 point harness anyway. The engineer I spoke to said he wasn't a big fan of 4 points due to submarining and said it was debatable I it'd be any safer than a lap sash anyway.
Whats your take Gary - assuming I could run a 4 point with the stock seat, are they any safer than a lap sash? If yes to a 4 point/stock seat then I'd need something to look after my neck yeah. Would one of those collars be enough as a HANS can be dangerous in compression if the roof comes down yeah?

[sambb]

these are the ones I was thinking of:

https://www.schrothracing.com/produc...lye-belts#1575

https://www.schrothracing.com/produc...lye-belts#1576

They can disconnect between the tailstrap and main part of the harness, because they bring both shoulder straps to a common point behind the seat back they might be ok with a stock seat (in terms of not letting a shoulder strap slip off the side, and they have a stitched 'ratchet' in the inboard shoulder strap so that some asymetrical upper body movement occurs which they say stops submarining. Harnesses with this system cant be used with a HANS though.

This vid seems to show that its safer than a 3pt or a normal 4pt. As always its open to interpretation:
YouTube

[Sydneykid]

I honestly believe that I wouldn't be here if I didn't have a 4 point harness in the rollover. It was a clip in style, with the steel loops at the normal mounts for the sash plus loops at rear for the harness using the rear seat belt sash mounts. The angle was in line with the regs. It lived in the garage and I just clipped it in at the track and then removed it for the trip home. My son lost the Evo at turn 1 at Eastern Creek (around 170 kph) and it went diagonally backwards into the wall, breaking the OE Recaro seat back. It was lucky it had washed off a bit of speed and hit the tyre barrier, if it had gone in at full tilt he probably wouldn't be walking around today.

They screw into the normal seat belt mounts replacing the bolts, so they can be left in place.




Before any of my cars hit the track it's roll cages, seats and 6 point harnesses.

Cheers
Gary