Sam's build thread

[sambb]

starting to be pretty well convinced that the SEAT sport FMIC is causing a decent pressure drop/flow restriction. A couple of things make me think this is the case. First is that somewhere I've 'lost' 20g/s of airflow through the MAF. The old car was sucking 190g/s even when it had the restrictive OEM muffler on there with the same tune, same turbo, same exhaust mani etc. The only thing that is different is that on this car I have the huge SEAT interccoler. Those 190 g/s numbers were with the standard SMIC that from Guy's flow testing in an old thread was shown to have next to no pressure drop compared to the forge and the SEAT despite having the same 50mm piping. His APR was close but didn't cool things quite as efficiently as the forge for example. So I was running a better flowing SMIC and took care of the temperature issues of that IC with a water spray, ducting etc. In addition it was a much shorter pipe run. Also, with the modded turbo on this car I'm not having to trim as much overboost out of it as I did before on the same spring, N75, tune etc. When I installed the modded turbo onto this car I fitted the restrictor I'd used last time and it brought the boost way down. That to me suggests that the turbo coupled with the better flowing SMIC was able to push bigger boost more easily as it had less flow restriction. With the SEAT IC though I've barely had to restrict it to get the boost into line. So what I'm thinking is to try a smaller IC that has slightly bigger piping that is a single pass but still has pipe exits in the stock direction.

This is a BA/BF XR6 turbo IC. From what I can tell it'll bridge the bottom grille opening nicely. Its made by garret. It has 60mm piping rather than the tiny 50mm of the stock and SEAT units. They can be had for 50 bucks on ebay/gumtree and might be a cheap and relatively easy way to test whether pressure drop across the SEAT FMIC is robbing me of power. I'd get it flow tested first against the SMIC numbers posted up years ago. If it looks like a good flowing unit at the sort of air flow that the K03s pushes then it might be worth a fit up to see if the giant SEAT is infact a flow restriction to a little turbo like the K03s. Yes I could keep the SEAT in place and test the IC in versus out pressure bit I'd have to drill fittings for that anyway. Also I'd still have no basis for comparison of any numbers I'd get anyway.
Anyone familiar with these ford IC's know which is the intake and which is the outlet of the IC?

[simon k]

my bet is on the 180° bend at the top being the outlet, but I've asked on my car club's facebook page - bogan central on there... I like how cheap they are

here's someone selling TWO for $50!

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/maho...ler/1175989500

[sambb]

yeah that's the ad I saw! cheap as chips hey. The other option is to convert to a single pass with a passenger side exit and go up between the headlight how Louis has with the Garret conversion. If a passenger side feed inlet manifold off a BAM coded audi S3 8L model could go onto the car then that would be a good way to go I reckon. I'm not sure if the fuel rail and injector heights etc are compatible though but it probably would. Anyone out there put an S3 inlet onto a BJX?

[sambb]

cant help myself. Now starting to think that a BAM inlet manifold (passenger side throttle body), with a water to air intercooler sitting beside the engine where the battery/airbox used to be. Might add a bit of weight but at least the weight would be back and to the light side of the engine bay. The inlet track would be less than a meter long (which plays about 3m as is) so I reckon you would be just about lagless. Bit of research to do regarding heat exchanger sizing, pump flow rates and how much water volume would be needed for it to remain cool during a track session but could be good.
Trouble is finding a quality dedicated water to air core for not an arm and a leg. Spewing I missed out on this one when it was going cheap!!!!! want to see what a Ferrari Formula 1 2014/2015 water to air intercooler looks like?: YouTube

[rgvlee]

I've been considering switching inlet sides, but probably going for an ie one

[Blue9N3]

Interesting finding with the seat which is why I went with the 75mm core for mine. It makes sense since the seat is a 60mm dual pass, so each pass has a similar x sectional area as the stock unit but is like 4 times longer.

Why not try turning the smic into a water to air unit with a radiator where a fmic would sit? Would be hard to beat that with ice in the reservoir for a hill climb...

You could probably just seal up the existing smic in a plastic shell with water fixings....


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[sambb]

Managed to find a local BA/BF XR6T IC locally so I'll check it out this arvo. If its close to a fit visually and does in fact have 60mm pipes i'll grab it at $75 bucks. Nothing definitive on the SEAT being the problem just yet. But at a 1m path with an end tank U-turn, and 2in inlet/outlets (with associated pipework coming in at as low as 45mm I.D) its got to pose a fair restriction. I'll do lots of temp logs of the SEAT first. I've so far found it to be brilliant temperature-wise - it could just be a bit restrictive. I just cant find any flow test numbers on it. Also where the DV used to come off the hot inlet pipe I could probably rig up a pressure gauge with a one way valve to capture the peak boost pre intercooler and compare that to the MAP sensor numbers in VCDS for post IC.
The ford wont go in unless it can outflow the OEM side mount because that's the benchmark in the test really. I have one spare that I can check against it. I'd probably run it with stock piping diameter initially but if it works well and I hang onto it I'll eventually need a new MAP sensor mounted onto bigger piping, new DV tee-pipe, and new main pipes. It'd also be best for traffic and hillclimb heatsoak especially to try to mount it in front of the A/C and radiator fans so that the A/C can be used to keep the core cool at rest.
I had considered using a side mount as a water to air core but apparently the W2A cores are fundamentally different to A2A cores - eg If you look at that F1 core, the water might be dual, or diagonal pass through really tiny galleries for max surface area attached to the water. Flooding an A2A bar and fin core doesn't work nearly as well apparently. Ive seen a lot of guys at the hillcimbs run W2A systems with a reservoir so that ice can be added. That'd be cool.

[sambb]

well I bought the ford XR6T intercooler. Unfortunately the inlet/outlet is 2in. I'd have preferred 2.5in but at least this way it'll be apples for apples when comparing it to the SEAT for any flow advantages. Looks to be really well made (which you'd expect from Garret I suppose) with nice big profiles end tanks. They all come powder coated black for good heat rejection too I suppose. I'll get onto it soon.

[sambb]

my boost gauge is dead accurate when cross referenced with VCDS MAP sensor mbar numbers. I plumbed it into the pre intercooler induction pipe where the DV had originally gotten its feed from before I repositioned it to the throttle body. Did one 3rd gear power run, a little down hill and not from 2000rpm which really builds the boost and I can report that pre intercooler boost was 1.7psi higher. On a proper 3rd gear run under good load I reckon 2psi IC drop will be on the cards. I'll do simultaneous logs later to really pin down the difference but it does look like the SEAT poses a flow restriction to a stage 2 K03s resulting in some boost drop. I've searched all day for Guy Harding's posts re intercooler restrictions and cant bloody find it, but I do think I remember him saying that the forge had a 2psi drop which was unacceptable to him. At the time the SEAT hadn't been compared. More numbers needed obviously and where this fits against the SMIC or what the XR6T IC will do is anyones guess.

[sambb]

sweet. I found the early posts where Guy_H had the data relating to stock SMIC, forge (u-turn double pass) and APR (single pass):

Meet my Polo!

since the SEAT was never tested at the time I do wonder if it suffers from the same fundamental dramas as the forge.