Sam's build thread

[sambb]

Hayden got any pics of the square tube within the beam method - can't picture how it would be welded at each end.

[metalhead]

Bugger about the beam, but I too was reading it and thinking you'd pranged it! Good luck, I'm sure you can get it sorted before next Thurs.

[Sydneykid]

Ford Fiestas and Chev Sonics also have twist beam rear suspension and there are some "unique" rear swaybar solutions available for them;










A Passat one


Audi


Quite a few different ideas that aren't too hard to DIY.

Cheers
Gary

[simon k]

Hayden got any pics of the square tube within the beam method - can't picture how it would be welded at each end.

I was thinking about this too, I don't know what the inside of the existing beam looks like, but I do come from a world of old pommy cars that used torsion bar independent front suspension...

the torsion bar on a Morris Minor runs along the chassis rail on each side, attached to the bottom suspension arm at the front and a transverse crossmember under the front seats

the attachment to the crossmember looks like this:



the bar goes into the slot in that C plate, then the arm pushes down over the splines. The slot in the crossmember has a plate with multiple holes, and you put a bolt through the hole that gives you the ride height you want. They adjust the spring rate by using thicker torsion bars. There's a/was Group N Minor running around that has ENORMOUS torsion bars in it... very stiff front suspension

here are the actual parts



If you were going to put a bar inside the rear beam, then you could do it with a plate at either end that has an internally splined boss bolted to the inside of the rear beam, and a splined torsion bar joining the two plates. No welding, and can be removed

like this:



too complicated?

I imagine what Hayden is suggesting is much the same but using a bit of CHS going from one end to the other. Though I still think bolting it in is better than welding it. Weld plates inside the rear beam that is completely seam welded and solid, and bolt your 'new' torsion bar to that

edit: those pictures Gary has posted are just about exactly what I was thinking of... he must've posted just after I started writing that post and got distracted and came back to it

[Sydneykid]

This is a design for Golf Mk4 and is probably what I'm going to make for my Polo. I have a few suitable lengths of chrome molly tube with various wall thicknesses, so I'll guess (educated guess of course) what I think it needs and then try it out.


Cheers
Gary

[simon k]

I'm keen on this, if it means I can make it out of scrap I already have in the garage, it's something else I don't have to buy!!

[HaydEn]

Tried finding photo's but due to Photobucket debacle. I can't seem to get any.

Tube sits on the lower edge of the beam, under the torsion bar.

Weld on the ends, similar placement of welds to that of the Shine Bar mounts.

I did find a photo of the SCCH toe correction arms though!

Sent from my Moto C using Tapatalk

[sambb]

Nice. love the input. simon K my Pug 205gti had semi trailing arms, a lateral torsion bar and horizontal dampers. Epic handling - anyone want to do that to my cars rear end?.
Yeah Gary its the red one with the V shaped bushes that I was thinking of. I was too scared to drill and mistakenly thought welding would be easier.... Just thinking out loud but what if you added a third point in the middle of the bar. eg a bearing that you could pin/bolt the bar to, that would give you a full stiff setting - remove the middle bolt allowing the bar to twist along is whole length for a softer setting.
Yeah I've seen some of those Hayden. I contacted a guy on a british hillclimb site wondering what the links do while back. Seems like a lot of work and weight for just stabilising the rear toe. If you ran that with a RARB you'd be getting heavy!
I weighed the whiteline 20mm bar today and it was 4kg. That means the plate I'd had welded only weighed 1kg!

[sambb]

Bloody pics wont load from work, I'll have to add them later. I think this thread is taking up all their bandwidth!
Well I worked like an animal today. For some reason couldn't sleep after nightshifts so got up early and got stuck in. ****e beam out, removed the brakes and bushes, cut out the OE bushes from Seans beam and swapped it all over and fit the un modded beam back in. While I was waiting for a mate to arrive to help with the rear brake bleed I decided to remove my Bilstein B8's and swap in the dampers from the MCA coilover kit that had just arrived. So the rear end now has a 20mm whiteline RARB with rose jointed droplinks, the same H&R springs and MCA X series dampers. Was a 5 hour effort on 2 hours sleep and now I have to work all night but the beam is sorted now. The dampers are an amazing improvement. Despite now probably being overdamped (they are valved/adjusted for 350lb springs but he H&R's are less than 200lb/in) they are like butter over bumps compared to the B8's which are far more crashy in comparison, yet feel great when you lean on them. As a damper comparison on the same rate of spring they are a cut way above. Super motivated now to press on and get the whole lot in.

[Sydneykid]

Yeah Gary its the red one with the V shaped bushes that I was thinking of. I was too scared to drill and mistakenly thought welding would be easier.... Just thinking out loud but what if you added a third point in the middle of the bar. eg a bearing that you could pin/bolt the bar to, that would give you a full stiff setting - remove the middle bolt allowing the bar to twist along is whole length for a softer setting.

I'm not sure that adding a bolt in the middle would make any difference to the anti roll. It would still link the 2 wheels together with the same overall length. Shortening the overall length is the easiest method, so you could have 3 or 4 bolts, holes and mounts at each end. Just one bolt at each outer end would be the softest setting (longest bar to twist), then 2 bolts (shorter bar to twist), 3 bolts etc.

Yeah I've seen some of those Hayden. I contacted a guy on a british hillclimb site wondering what the links do while back. Seems like a lot of work and weight for just stabilising the rear toe. If you ran that with a RARB you'd be getting heavy!

Using chrome molly tube or alloy rod and alloy spherical bearings it wouldn't weigh that much, probably less than 2kgs. How much difference it makes is the real question, I'd like to test it and see how much better the toe control is and what movement resistance is added.

Cheers
Gary