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Thread: Red Devil mkII - The Journey Continues

  1. #221
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    Enjoy this thread very much!

  2. #222
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    Really cool to see the comparisons in a total break down, seems like the only real area the red polo has the larger time gain is coming onto the straight as to be expected.

    Like you'd already know sometimes more power isn't the key to fast lap times, until your conditioned to the car and understand how and when to apply power, braking, proper lines etc, more power in the wrong hands generally leads to overshooting corners, ending up on the wrong lines and overall actually being slower then if your in a slower car making less mistakes and sticking to the lines. I've raced R/C cars for years, from 1/8th Gas buggies through to 1/10 electric on road cars, and it's the exact same concept. It's only the guys who are more experienced and know how to utilise the power, that then become faster when controlling a higher powered car.

    Also people underestimate the ability to produce consistent laps one after the other. Of course you have to be fast aswell but so many times in R/C racing you would see guys with the fastest overall laps for the day but near the back end of the pack overall because they have just done a one hit wonder lap, but then every other lap is 3-4 seconds slower, which over the time of a 10 minute race adds up to nearly a whole extra lap of time.

    That bit over 1 sec time difference between the two cars per lap to people may not seem like a lot considering the two cars different mods and power etc but when you get to the pointy end of competition even 0.1 of a second is a lot per lap. Imagine if you were to for argument sake, put the two head to head in a proper race of something like 50 laps, that 1 second difference would nearly accumulate to a whole minute ahead, which in the scheme of thing is a lot. Anyways I won't go on to much.


    Off the times in your silver one you can see your driving ability is there, and you know your lines well. It will just be a matter of time before your in the 62's in the red one. Also congrats on beating your PB
    Last edited by louis19; 11-05-2015 at 02:04 PM.
    2006 GTI Polo - Big Turbo Build - Louis19's Build Thread

  3. #223
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    hi, cheers for the responses.

    Gavin, I didn't record this one, though my lines are typically very similar to Nat's, and Alan's. I think we're all running very similar now, though it's about refining and finding those 10ths. Which is also why I've started looking at distance travelled per lap, as 10metres at 170kph (47.2 metres per second) is 0.211 seconds. Gotta find them 10ths.

    Alan, regarding brakes. The silver polo is standard calipers with DBA T2 rotors front and rear with Bendix pads on the front and remsa on the rear. They certainly look and feel worse for wear today. The red polo has Brembo's front with 320mm T2 rotor's, rears are off upsized and vented (250mm) with braided lines, remsa pads front and rear I think. The red polo feels much stronger under brakes. Now it has QFM A1RM's, I'm expecting better performance.

    I wasn't sure how best to illustrate the differences, so have tried a screen shot with overlay straight from the Gtech software.
    Points A: braking. Longitudinal force is braking (-ve g's) and acceleration (+ve g's). The black lines and data are from the silver polo, the red for the red. This one graph is actually some of my better braking in the red car. Note the y-axis is for time, rather than distance, so it will be skewed a bit due to speed. Anyway, at the "A", you can see the red line isn't as progressive/linear as the black. I'm having 2 go's under braking. I'm guessing that I'm out braking myself, so letting off, than getting back on the brakes (albeit very marginally in this graph). I'm also braking harder (more g's) in the silver car. It's the same at the second "A", but more evident.

    Point B: I'm looking at how progressing that line is as I get back on the throttle. This in accelerating out of Hungry. I have to run 4th gear in the red polo as it's wheel spun, the silver car is 3rd gear, but not full throttle as that'll spin a bit too. But the line is much more progressing. I'm also interested in the lateral acceleration (turning), which the black line is also much smoother.

    Pont C: This is the turn at the bus stop, just as you tip in under the bridge. Surprisingly, the speed between both cars is essentially identical at just over 150kph. As is peak speed coming into Hungry at ~170kph. The red line (red car), gets there sooner, and post corner accelerates much quicker, but peak cornering speeds/loads are very similar. On this lap in this corner, I'm also braking harder in the silver car at -0.86g's compared to maxing the red car at -0.7g's.

    Given the red car has much more chassis tweaking; bushes, shims, camber/castor kit, corner weighted, coilovers, lots of bracing, I'm really quite surprised how close the data appears. In terms of feel, the red car is better, front end feel in the corners is better, braking feels better, but it doesn't look like I'm getting all that out of the car yet. In Karousel and Eastern Loop, there's nothing in it, if anything I'm doing better in the silver car... I wonder if it's just needing more time in the red one to get a handle on the power, or is it too much power with an open diff...




    Louis, thanks for the your input mate. It's hard to put chasing 10th's into perspective until your doing it hey. Will we see you out there?
    Last edited by seangti; 11-05-2015 at 09:41 PM.
    Track Car: 06 Polo GTI Red Devil mkII
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    Gone but not forgotten: 08 Polo GTI
    ** All information I provide is probably incorrect until validated by someone else **

  4. #224
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    I want this data analysis for my laps! How much to hire you, Sean?
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  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machine View Post
    I want this data analysis for my laps! How much to hire you, Sean?
    You can't afford me, pal Red Devil mkII - The Journey Continues

    It's yours when its not mine, though the vbox software is more detailed and would save a lot of time from having to collate data in excel.
    Track Car: 06 Polo GTI Red Devil mkII
    Daily: 2010 VW Jetta Highline
    Gone but not forgotten: 08 Polo GTI
    ** All information I provide is probably incorrect until validated by someone else **

  6. #226
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    Yeah it's easy to make speculations and suggestions from the sidelines, totally different story putting it all into action out there. Like most things, easier said then done

    I do want to get into some time attack days but there's still a few more things I want to do on the car before then. Until then, happy laps days are entertaining enough to keep me assumed.
    2006 GTI Polo - Big Turbo Build - Louis19's Build Thread

  7. #227
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    Ok, so the turbo is knackered on the red car, seals and turbine shaft are shat and I'm unsure of getting it rebuilt and lasting. Looking at Frankenturbo F21 at the moment, just started bouncing some emails. Also looked at Beach Buggy turbo's in the UK, though the lead time suggested on their site is longer than I want to be without, and I don't have any access to local knowledge/reviews of their gear. I'm open to any other recommendations. I'm not overly chasing a power figure, it just must be able to withstand track work.

    I'm also tempted to go back to standard turbo, if anyone hears of one in good condition please let me know.

    Last edited by seangti; 14-05-2015 at 03:59 PM. Reason: removed some wording
    Track Car: 06 Polo GTI Red Devil mkII
    Daily: 2010 VW Jetta Highline
    Gone but not forgotten: 08 Polo GTI
    ** All information I provide is probably incorrect until validated by someone else **

  8. #228
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    I think for the price the Frankenturbo is your best bet, apart from beach buggy or there is also Gonzo and FTG (for the gusto)

    I have only heard of 1 Frankenturbo failing and it was more so user error, Gonzo i heard a few people are using but not much customer support/communication, basically a copy of Frankenturbo and FTG, well i have no idea but seems too cheap (maybe worth a try)

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  9. #229
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    I'd be leaning toward a Garrett or maybe a OEM type K04 as a direct bolt-up.
    Cheap, Fast, Reliable. Choose two.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuwey View Post
    I'd be leaning toward a Garrett or maybe a OEM type K04 as a direct bolt-up.
    Garrett would be too expensive to fit up, new downpipe, manifold, TIP, rods, tune, your basically starting again.
    OEM K04 would cost around the same or more than a Frankenturbo
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