Red Devil mkII - The Journey Continues

[grandturismo]

No stiffer springs as yet. Definitely will consider it in the near future. There's a few things I can adjust and play around with before I go spending more money though.

Interestingly, I had a lot more understeer happening at MP, but most of that I can put down to bad driving but I do think reducing the front ride height a bit and possibly increasing rebound damping at the fronts may help. That was my thought process anyway, but I'll have a chat with Ken and show him some video. He'll probably tell me to stop over driving and hit the apex

Do you have sway bars? I'd check the fronts are fairly stiff first that should help.

[Eddy]

Hoyhoy.

Ya have to set it up so it has over steer on cold tyres. (stiffen the rear)
I change the rear sway bar setting for the track, I have the front 24mm front set up to the stiffest all the time.
Even then you will still get plenty of under steer once when warmed up, when going hard, especially with slower corners.

P.S. Sorry Greg, I know ya once said that swerving to heat up the tyres (rear ones) was a waste of time, but I find it necessary to get the faster times.
I may be wrong, but I find this does help heaps..

[kaanage]

Stiffer front anti-roll bar => more understeer, not less, gt.

FWD will alway understeer on exit of slow turns - that's just a fact of life if the car to be at all balanced for entry and mid-corner.

Eddy, I reckon you're warming yourself up, not the tyres whilst weaving around. You may also be scrubbing off pickup from the previous session but tyres need sustained loading to generate any significant heat. Unless you're out to get best times in the 2nd lap of a session, I don't see warmup weaving providing any overall benefit.

Here's a test done with bikes to try and measure the effect. A car is much heavier but also wears bigger tyres and more of them to distribute the weight. Tire Temp. and Weaving

[grandturismo]

Stiffer front anti-roll bar => more understeer, not less, gt.

FWD will alway understeer on exit of slow turns - that's just a fact of life if the car to be at all balanced for entry and mid-corner.

Eddy, I reckon you're warming yourself up, not the tyres whilst weaving around. You may also be scrubbing off pickup from the previous session but tyres need sustained loading to generate any significant heat. Unless you're out to get best times in the 2nd lap of a session, I don't see warmup weaving providing any overall benefit.

Here's a test done with bikes to try and measure the effect. A car is much heavier but also wears bigger tyres and more of them to distribute the weight. Tire Temp. and Weaving

Yep you're right.
I was trying to say perhaps tweak the stiffness to an even level that suits the vehicle before adjusting for understeer or oversteer. Having said that probably best to soften first to correct.

[seangti]

It's got adjustable sway bars front and rear. The front is on the softer setting, the rear sway bar is in the mid section. On the semi slicks and at lakeside, understeer hasn't been much of a consideration on this set-up. When I do QR next I will stiffen the rear to see how that feels. I'm somewhat reluctant to stiffen the rear much at lakeside as I'd prefer to not go backwards under the bridge should it get overly twitchy. I'm still working up to full throttle through that section, I'm lifting a bee's whisker before tipping in, but once committed it's on the floor boards.

In saying all this, corner entry at high and low speed is quite adjustable and playful, just trying to get power to the ground on the tighter stuff, e.g. morgan park coming out of the esses on to the straight was more pronounced than i'd experienced to date. Perhaps I should have ran the semi slicks as I doubt the understeer would be as prevelent.

All good fun hey.

[Eddy]

Stiffer front anti-roll bar => more understeer, not less, gt.

FWD will alway understeer on exit of slow turns - that's just a fact of life if the car to be at all balanced for entry and mid-corner.

Eddy, I reckon you're warming yourself up, not the tyres whilst weaving around. You may also be scrubbing off pickup from the previous session but tyres need sustained loading to generate any significant heat. Unless you're out to get best times in the 2nd lap of a session, I don't see warmup weaving providing any overall benefit.

Here's a test done with bikes to try and measure the effect. A car is much heavier but also wears bigger tyres and more of them to distribute the weight. Tire Temp. and Weaving

Hoyhoy.


First thing Greg, why have a front sway bar @ all.
Secondly, if your going hard enough, understeer with braking happens when entering turns more so than exiting.
>
I know that I'm just a silly old fart, but even with myself driving the Little Blue Girl, the fact is that I have several official sub 1'10" times @ Waky & guess what the Little Blue Girl is the only Polo to do this, may be its just a fluke.
To top it off She's drive down to Waky from the Gold Coast & now also tows a trailer as well.
>
Below shows Warren Luff who grew up on this track & also had more HP than the Little Blue Girl - 270 against 240 approx.
His time was 1'10".2

Functional flat underbody and rear diffuser design

[h100vw]

When I do QR next I will stiffen the rear to see how that feels. I'm somewhat reluctant to stiffen the rear much at lakeside as I'd prefer to not go backwards under the bridge should it get overly twitchy.

I set mine to full stiff before the last HL. Felt OK there but definitely not so much on the loop onto the highway from the airport. It feels really twitchy there and has probably lost 5-10kmh off the max speed I dare to hit.

I should back it off to confirm my suspicion.

Gavin

[seangti]

We're talking sway bar settings though the appropriate setting is dependent on the spring rate. A stiffer spring on the rear will allow you to run the front sway bar setting harder to compensate or balance the car. Eddy, are you running the standard rear KW springs? I had a feeling you'd changed rear springs? This may better explain why it works.

I will swerve in the first lap of the first session to get a feel for the grip levels and scrub the tyres. I don't know if it increases heat, but it improves my focus and feel.

Sounds like I need some trial and error to see what works for my set up and my driving style.

It's good to hear of the different set ups and what's working for each of us.

Gav, yeah the risk of swapping ends on the streets are higher given the reality of mid corner lift off.

[seangti]

Functional flat underbody and rear diffuser design

ahhh, the memories of an old thread and the joys of hindsight. Just gotta get out there and drive the damn things, if it's not working for you, work out whether it's you or the car, than what's the most practical approach to change, you or the car.

Eddy, would be tops to do a track day with you as a point of reference, compare notes and check out your car. At the moment I can only compare to mk6 golft GTI's and R's. I anticipate doing the VW Nats next year at wakefield, whenever that is.

[kaanage]

We're talking sway bar settings though the appropriate setting is dependent on the spring rate. A stiffer spring on the rear will allow you to run the front sway bar setting harder to compensate or balance the car. Eddy, are you running the standard rear KW springs? I had a feeling you'd changed rear springs? This may better explain why it works.

I will swerve in the first lap of the first session to get a feel for the grip levels and scrub the tyres. I don't know if it increases heat, but it improves my focus and feel.

Sounds like I need some trial and error to see what works for my set up and my driving style.

It's good to hear of the different set ups and what's working for each of us.

Gav, yeah the risk of swapping ends on the streets are higher given the reality of mid corner lift off.

It's quite possible that the H&R springs that came with my cup kit have stiffer rear rates relative to the front which is why I found that my PoD was pretty much perfectly balanced without a rear anti-roll bar (and why I only added one when uprating the front ARB). The balance is set by the relative roll stiffness so the springs absolutely play a roll (pun intended).

The swerving around to get a feel is what I mean about warming yourself up rather than the tyres. I do it by playing with corner speed and throttle on the first lap of a session for the reasons I have stated before.

With faster corners (eg turn 1 at Phillip Island or Eastern Creek), it doesn't take much mid corner lift off to turn the car around if you set the car to "point". I had this due to too much rake when I ran the rear perches.