low temp thermostat

[Martin]

Stock NA engines go ok at the track (unless it's a 40 deg day) - no water temperature problems
Turbo cars do rocket the oil temperature - but again, fine on the water temperature
I can well imagine hill climbs providing a unique challenge

[sambb]

hmm sounds like you guys think that oil temp might be the bigger issue. I can't remember seeing one anywhere when going through it, but is there a VCDS block that includes oil temp?

[seangti]

hmm sounds like you guys think that oil temp might be the bigger issue. I can't remember seeing one anywhere when going through it, but is there a VCDS block that includes oil temp?

I've never come across an oil temp sensor, I don't believe there is one on the 9n. I'd like to log oil temp and oil pressure but it doesn't come through the ECU. For a hill climb, I'd have thought the concerns would be the other way round, i.e. getting everything up to temp ASAP rather than cooling.

My car has a cooler thermostat, I can't recall what temp it is without looking at the build thread. I've had no overheating concerns and tracked in to mid to upper 30's, sometimes for some quite long sessions. It does bleed boost quite significantly when the temps get up, I was getting only 13psi boost the other weekend after a few laps whereas peak is 19psi. A less committed lap brought the boost back to 16-17psi. If I was to consider cooling (which I am), it'd be an oil cooler with thermostat. I feel with the greater amount of oil and the increased viscosity of oil over water it would have a greater influence on stabilizing temperatures.

I also need to better understand the boost drop in high ambient temps - but that's not this thread

[sambb]

I've only done a few hillclimbs where the car really cooked. They were king Edward park and panorama which were both 35+ degree days. Most other events are martialled differently but at these ones where the 'pits' are at the top, they would put you into a grid or reverse grid at the top where you wait till the class in front has all come up. They then pace car you down the hill where the field either u turns or reverses back into the correct running order behind the 'tyre warming area'. By the time 20 cars have launched and you've been creeping up bit by bit to get into the blocks (and on the way down you were accelerating and braking to get as much temperature into the brakes and rims which in turn heats the tyres from the inside out when your are sitting still later) the car is pretty much on max when you leave the line. When you finish the run you are basically straight into the pit area where you shut it down. I'd normally wait for the fans to stop before shutting it down but on these days they weren't going to. Yeah the electric water pump runs on after stoppage for a tiny bit, but by then has the thermostat already closed?? Maybe not if a lower temp thermostat is in there though. And when I went to restart the car for my next run (sometimes an hour later due to a crash or something) the fans would be on again almost immediately so it was cooking. I've not logged water temps when the car has been switched off for a while after a quick flogging but I can only imagine they get pretty dam high. It just seemed particularly hard on the car - everything your taught not to do eg idling a car to cool it, shutting it down hot. Just looking for some cheap insurance while I have the front of my car out.
But then again when I did Ringwood A3 once in sideways rain in winter the engine actually needed to be brought up to temp before each run and there you get much smaller fields that are martialled at the bottom of the hill too. I've always taken good care of my cars re warm up/down etc so yeah some events are fine, but other events make me wince a bit.
Re your boost, I've suffered from that too and I can honestly say that with the water injection running in real anger for the first time at Bathurst it was like driving the car on a cold night in comparison. It could be just your inlet temps. Or could the calculated EGT's be climbing and putting the ECU into a nanny mode?
Sean was your lower temp thermostat an ECS part or was it off another OE car that fits our housing. I'm going to pick VW parts' brain and see if any old bosch thermostat from repco etc will fit.

[sambb]

I just got off the phone to VW parts. The part they carry for our car is an 83/102 degree. My best guess is that this is what's referred to as the stock 90 degree thermostat by ECS. The ECS/neuspeed one is listed as 82 degree which probably means open 92/closed 72. If anyone can confirm that that's how they name the thermostats relative to their open/closed specs that'd be great.

[sambb]

The VW 83/102 thermostat carries the part # 050121113C and is listed elsewhere as an "87 degree". I have found the neuspeed "82 degree" carrying the part # 050121113C-82. Still not sure what its fully open/ fully closed values are but its the same bit of kit with a different spring I'd say that judging by its name maintains a 5 degree lower temp average.
If I find the same ones listed for other OE's i'll post up the generic part number cos' $66 for the VW 87 degree is just a tad steep.

[sambb]

alright if you want a cheap stock one it seems that ours is common also with a Mitsubishi outlander and Nissan micra. Their OE prices would have to be better than ours.

Behr Thermostat Mit Dichtung Mitsubishi Outlander Nissan Micra K11 K12 TX1487D | eBay

pages 3 and 4 of the listings show mitsi/Nissan and pg 11 shows our car.

Even better, the Gates TH00188G1 is a stock replacement - now just to find an 82 degree variant.

[seangti]

All I know of my thermostat is what's in my (cut from Anthony's) build thread, which says Wahler 71c thermostat. I don't recall reading much detail in Anthony's thread as for why he did the change, though he may have and it didn't spike my interest.

[Martin]

When you finish the run you are basically straight into the pit area where you shut it down. I'd normally wait for the fans to stop before shutting it down but on these days they weren't going to. Yeah the electric water pump runs on after stoppage for a tiny bit, but by then has the thermostat already closed?? Maybe not if a lower temp thermostat is in there though. And when I went to restart the car for my next run (sometimes an hour later due to a crash or something) the fans would be on again almost immediately so it was cooking. I've not logged water temps when the car has been switched off for a while after a quick flogging but I can only imagine they get pretty dam high. It just seemed particularly hard on the car - everything your taught not to do eg idling a car to cool it, shutting it down hot. Just looking for some cheap insurance while I have the front of my car out.

You think the car is "cooking" but you don't have any actual temperature readings
You could install a watchdog temp gauge - very easy to install and useful indicator

Turning the car on and the fans running straight away does not mean the engine is "cooking" - it happens in peak hour traffic around the city on a hot day

The water temperature does not continue to increase after turning the engine off

The thermostat opens and closes slowly

Thicker radiator would be a good idea - not only for more cooling, but the added water capacity helps a lot

When you turn the engine off after a run:
Leave the ignition on so that the fans can continue to operate
Open the bonnet to let out hot air
Turn the heater to full heat and the interior fan to full - this will help cool the water

[h100vw]

The water temperature does not continue to increase after turning the engine off

How would the fans kick in after you park up if the water wasn't getting hotter?

I'll often turn the heater to hot coming off track but that's a shocker through summer.

Gavin