How not to sell a Polo GTI. And how to.

[Blitzen]

Yeah, but that's like saying that you can only get 350Nm out of the Golf GTI DSG (or manual for that matter, cause it's rated for 350Nm too). Yet both of them have cars running around with 500Nm+ on them - the DSG with the stock clutches even.
The 7sp DSG in the Polo and Golf probably won't take anywhere near that much but the Stage I ECU's for the 1.4TSI Golf's are running around the 320Nm mark, and the 7sp DSG has been more than happy with that... anyway, it's a bit off topic

Sorry. My fault, I didn't get my point across properly... The actual gearbox controller is only going to allow the gearbox to take an extra 20nm. It's not that the gearbox won't handle the extra power, but that the controller won't allow it.

I think the op did the right thing in his situation. I have had several cases where the dealer will only allow you to test drive the car only if you put money down to buy, which I think is wrong, and each time I have taken my business elsewhere.

[kmli5]

Sorry. My fault, I didn't get my point across properly... The actual gearbox controller is only going to allow the gearbox to take an extra 20nm. It's not that the gearbox won't handle the extra power, but that the controller won't allow it.

Does it only limit it in DSG?
What about the 1.8T manual? Do you know what torque the 1.8T gearbox can handle?

cheers

[Blitzen]

Does it only limit it in DSG?
What about the 1.8T manual? Do you know what torque the 1.8T gearbox can handle?

cheers

This in only on the new polo GTI. I know of alot of golfs and polos that are running alot of power though a standard box. The only thing you really have to worry about is upgrading the clutch.

[Corey_R]

That's not entire correct either. There are ways around the torque limit of the DSG controller. At least 1 ECU vendor knows how to do it, so I'd presume the rest (or most of) also know how to do it. So if you upgrade the ECU you get more than the 20 Nm extra. This is nothing new - it's been happening for years now with the 6sp DSG and for the past 1.5 years with the Golf 118TSI and the 7sp DSG.

People have always made a big deal about the 350Nm torque limit of the 6sp DSG. Yet no one ever really made any mention that the manual 6sp gearbox is ALSO rated for 350Nm. All this "worry" and stuff about the DSG is only because it's new and unfamiliar to most.

[whiteVR6]

It may be the case of the actual controller limiting the torque but how well will it be known how much the clutch can handle before it starts to slip? At the moment the cars are new so the threshold may be higher, but in a few years when these cars have 50k+ kms on them how much can the gearbox/clutch/flywheel handle before it starts to slip?

[Corey_R]

You're right. Hence why the mods are relatively tame right now. Only 320Nm on a 250Nm gearbox. They've been doing fine with that for 1.5 years now. Maybe someone will add further performance parts to their cars and push the envelope sometime... only time will tell. I fully admit, I've got no idea what the 7sp dry clutch gearbox is capable of.

All I'm pointing out is the inaccuracies of beliefs about the DSG.
1) Both DSG gearboxes AND manual gearboxes have "rated torques" issued by VW. EVERYONE ignores the manual torque and yet most people get worried by the DSG torque - even though they've typically been rated for the same max torque on a given application.
2) When the 6sp DSG came out, it was limited to 350Nm, and everyone was worried about that (and many still are for some reason).
3) There have been stage 3 cars running around for several years now on STOCK 6sp DSG gearboxes (515Nm) and cars with 600+ with aftermarket DSG clutches etc
4) The 7sp DSG specific to this discussion has been running around with 151kW and 317Nm of torque (via the Golf 118TSI) for ~1.5 years now without any reports of DSG problems from anyone on any forum that I've seen and I've read every single post of the MK6 forum here, so if there IS anyone who's had a DSG failure due to ECU updates, then no one in our community knows about it. (or alternatively cares enough to post a link...)
5) The 7sp DSG is designed to slip the clutches even in stock operation. It does this most of the way through 1st gear and only full disengages (engages? which way is it) after going into 2nd. This design helps take the stress of initial acceleration off the gears. This behavour can be confirmed via logging with VCDS.

[Jmac]

Were's a moderator when you need one...

there's one, well done

On holiday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jmac]

You're right. Hence why the mods are relatively tame right now. Only 320Nm on a 250Nm gearbox. They've been doing fine with that for 1.5 years now. Maybe someone will add further performance parts to their cars and push the envelope sometime... only time will tell. I fully admit, I've got no idea what the 7sp dry clutch gearbox is capable of.

All I'm pointing out is the inaccuracies of beliefs about the DSG.
1) Both DSG gearboxes AND manual gearboxes have "rated torques" issued by VW. EVERYONE ignores the manual torque and yet most people get worried by the DSG torque - even though they've typically been rated for the same max torque on a given application.
2) When the 6sp DSG came out, it was limited to 350Nm, and everyone was worried about that (and many still are for some reason).
3) There have been stage 3 cars running around for several years now on STOCK 6sp DSG gearboxes (515Nm) and cars with 600+ with aftermarket DSG clutches etc
4) The 7sp DSG specific to this discussion has been running around with 151kW and 317Nm of torque (via the Golf 118TSI) for ~1.5 years now without any reports of DSG problems from anyone on any forum that I've seen and I've read every single post of the MK6 forum here, so if there IS anyone who's had a DSG failure due to ECU updates, then no one in our community knows about it. (or alternatively cares enough to post a link...)
5) The 7sp DSG is designed to slip the clutches even in stock operation. It does this most of the way through 1st gear and only full disengages (engages? which way is it) after going into 2nd. This design helps take the stress of initial acceleration off the gears. This behavour can be confirmed via logging with VCDS.

We were able to remap 6sp DSG cars no probs bt the 7sp software strategy doesnt allow us to, until of course we can map the Trans. We dont do the trans, not sure if any other vendors do just yet, and with the 6SP DSG i havent heard of any failing due to tunes mate, to be honest only proper DSG fail ive seen was a dealer missing coolant leaking into one. Which wasnt down to the DSG either, but was a faulty cooler, its made by KTM btw.
People do miss the torque rating for the manuals but put it down to the fact that its a given if their diff goes out for lunch, lets face it they do standard, we could go into how many tuning nightmares have we seen, ive only seen one major off during a live tune, hmm was an exxy one too. Anyway dont want to waver off topic but would be interesting to hear of any tranny DSG dramas, i personally rate them
Cheers
Jmac

[Corey_R]

Yeah - that's what I'm trying to say.... tunes don't kill DSG's!