Exhaust Manifold

[mikepologti]

wow there impressive figures, some of those flow increses were up 30-40 %

[noone]

Yeah, I'm not convinced by the dyno's.

The power does not seem to be much of an improvement with either of the mani's with dyno's provided until after 4000 rpm.

Its pretty difficult to determine what that would feel like on the road....

I guess it does come down to pricing at the end of the day.

[noone]

I've been looking for any info on the TT, Polo, Mk4, etc for gains by changing the exhaust manifold only. I cant find anything that supports it being worth while with the standard turbo.

I'm sure Anthony's car is pulling better if he says it is, but with a new clutch and flywheel, how could you tell what difference is coming from where?

Love some input from anyone else... especially if you find something supporting or deterring the change.

[pogo_55]

I've been looking for any info on the TT, Polo, Mk4, etc for gains by changing the exhaust manifold only. I cant find anything that supports it being worth while with the standard turbo.

I'm sure Anthony's car is pulling better if he says it is, but with a new clutch and flywheel, how could you tell what difference is coming from where?

Love some input from anyone else... especially if you find something supporting or deterring the change.

I agree. I really wish Anthony had made the changes independantly, so that it would have been more obvious where the increase came from. My bet is on the clutch (well lwfw to be exact) as the source of most of the power increase. I have backed up my mouth by ordering one through jmac. It is also cheaper than the manifold, well maybe, as it costs a bit to get it fitted. There has also been instances of the after market manifolds cracking, ask Mr Harding or H100vw.

[VWindahouse]

I've been looking for any info on the TT, Polo, Mk4, etc for gains by changing the exhaust manifold only. I cant find anything that supports it being worth while with the standard turbo.

I'm sure Anthony's car is pulling better if he says it is, but with a new clutch and flywheel, how could you tell what difference is coming from where?

Love some input from anyone else... especially if you find something supporting or deterring the change.

Hey Noone, IMO having heavily modded a coulpe of NA cars in the past including a facelift model Toyota Corolla Sportivo. This NA screamer came with 141kws from a 1.8L engine from factory and I added mods one by one all with the goal of more air flow - more power in mind and the Dyno didn't lie. Firstly started with HPC coated CAI then added a poly intake manifold gasket to keep intake temps even cooler. Then HPC coated exhaust manifold then a cat back with hi flow cat. The CAI gave good HP gains and with the exhaust but suprisingly the big increase in torque came from the exhaust manifold.

Now I totally understand we are comparing 2 totally different cars but from the feel of the Sportivo V's the Polo when the manifolds were added I can honestly say I believe the exhaust manifold has given the Devil plenty more torque the same as with the Sportivo. I loved being smashed into the back of my seat before with the Polo but now it really feels like a larger engine that's not taking any prisoners.

And I know the opinion from some of the crew that attened the last Dyno day and saw both Shanes white weapon and mine on the Dyno, is Shanes with the same mods and Custom Code phase II, except the LWFW which is the reason Shane pulled better numbers. But some may not know that Gavin only loaded phase II an hour or so before my Dyno run and we did not have a chance to hit some freeway onramps and flatten it to get some quality data logging done with the laptop. And therefore the timing was not adjusted until late that night. IMO the greatest power increase in this entire journey did not occur until then. So I really do believe on that occasion the difference was not the LWFW.

So has the LWFW made a difference?? Yes! (please read my review on the build up thread) But unfortunately I can't prove it gave more or less power than the manifold but what I can tell you is the mods I have done to date all work in perfect harmony and will behave completely stock if that's the way you want to drive it, but when you wind up to redline from 1st to 5th it is an animal considering it still only has a KO3s!

And anyone is welcome to give it a spin who is in two minds about what direction to take their Polo's

[whiteVR6]

I agree. I really wish Anthony had made the changes independantly, so that it would have been more obvious where the increase came from. My bet is on the clutch (well lwfw to be exact) as the source of most of the power increase. I have backed up my mouth by ordering one through jmac. It is also cheaper than the manifold, well maybe, as it costs a bit to get it fitted. There has also been instances of the after market manifolds cracking, ask Mr Harding or H100vw.

Ive also seen standard manifolds crack. Seb has a turbo here that has a rather large crack in it as well. I'll get pictures up if anyone is interested.
ATP manifolds did crack on the earlier units. The later units are of a slightly different design.
Another thing to look out for is the tune and EGTs. If its constantly too high it will eventually crack the manifold and the turbo. Fitting a manifold like this will allow a better flow to the turbo with less bottlenecks which the standard manifold has. INA did some testing of manifold flow in this post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3397678
Its possible this could eliminate the loose turbo bolts plaguing the polo gti's.
As for power increases , around 5-10whp has been quotes on peak power:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2111240&page=2

[VWindahouse]

I agree. I really wish Anthony had made the changes independantly, so that it would have been more obvious where the increase came from. My bet is on the clutch (well lwfw to be exact) as the source of most of the power increase. I have backed up my mouth by ordering one through jmac. It is also cheaper than the manifold, well maybe, as it costs a bit to get it fitted. There has also been instances of the after market manifolds cracking, ask Mr Harding or H100vw.

Awesome stuff mate!! Congrats on the FW! Yeah I too wish I had done the mods seperately (but my wallet is happy I didn't ) but I wish I had a Dyno chart for all my mods! Oh well live and learn I guess. Anyway I can't wait for Jimmy's Dyno day to help with the discussion.

[VWindahouse]

Ive also seen standard manifolds crack. Seb has a turbo here that has a rather large crack in it as well. I'll get pictures up if anyone is interested.
ATP manifolds did crack on the earlier units. The later units are of a slightly different design.
Another thing to look out for is the tune and EGTs. If its constantly too high it will eventually crack the manifold and the turbo. Fitting a manifold like this will allow a better flow to the turbo with less bottlenecks which the standard manifold has. INA did some testing of manifold flow in this post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3397678
Its possible this could eliminate the loose turbo bolts plaguing the polo gti's.
As for power increases , around 5-10whp has been quotes on peak power:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2111240&page=2

Thanks Courtney, I feel better knowing both that the stock and aftermarket manifolds are prone to crack due to exccessive heat stresses and the new ATP mani is different and a better design. And I like the fact that Jiimmy had the insight to not only HPC coat the outside of my mani but the inside aswell heat is the enemy

[Jmac]

Ive also seen standard manifolds crack. Seb has a turbo here that has a rather large crack in it as well. I'll get pictures up if anyone is interested.
ATP manifolds did crack on the earlier units. The later units are of a slightly different design.
Another thing to look out for is the tune and EGTs. If its constantly too high it will eventually crack the manifold and the turbo. Fitting a manifold like this will allow a better flow to the turbo with less bottlenecks which the standard manifold has. INA did some testing of manifold flow in this post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3397678
Its possible this could eliminate the loose turbo bolts plaguing the polo gti's.
As for power increases , around 5-10whp has been quotes on peak power:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2111240&page=2

Agreed here, i have seen many manifolds cracked and they were standard, and a LOT are cracked around the wastegate which doesnt show up as the poppet normally covers it,and again regarding the Heat coating i truly think its gonna lessen the chance of the bolts coming loose, itll be worth keeping an eye on.Ive wirelocked them anyway but if they stretch then the wirelock wont stop that.EGT,EGT a biggie here.any of you guys that are coming to the dyno day please ask Troy or rick about EGTs, they have a Ute with standard internals and its off its guts mainly because they knock block tune it and keep the EGT s safe which again is down to the tuner, , encroach that then dice with major and very quick dramas.
Makes perfect sense with flow and scavenging IMo
My 2c
Jmac

[pogo_55]

Hey Jimmy,

If you have lowered the temp in the manifold, then isn't there going to be more heat in the turbo? If so then there is going to be a bigger temperature difference between the two and isn't this going to increase the chance of problems with the sealing between them, warping etc. Also isn't putting more heat into the turbo going to be detrimental to it's life expectancy. I honestly haven't got anything against changing the manifold, just keen to learn.