ECU Flashes for '06 Polo GTi

[Guy_H]

Without starting an argument (and mods - we are not) - insurance is one thing - you state

Quote

"Oettingers warranty doesnt differ that from my workshop warranty . Maybe its there so that the chip company doesnt get a bad name if something fails and the workshop doesnt have its own warranty (that is quite common in the industry!)"

We are talking warranty, as in Oettingers warranty covers a specified, published list, and includes engine / gearbox / breakdown warranty - ie: the breakdown warranty covers you anywhere in Australia.

If you have no "warranty", you can state it, don't be asshamed if you are only using a "workshop liabilty" insurance & not offering a warranty as such.

As an Importer, wholesaler, retailer of performance products, we carry extensive "Insurance" include product liablity (which covers a product defect causing injury, death or loss of property or damage) as well as the usual "workshop" insurances which do not cover any of that. The cost of our insurance per year is about the smae as buying a Base Golf V.

Please elaborate on what your customers get!

This is actually a good string, as one of the first questions asked by customers is extent of warranty!

[Timbo]

Can I just nip this potential little piss-fight in the bud?

As suppliers to the consumer market, all chip tuners are subject to the warranty provisions of the Trade Practices Act, ie, "fitness for purpose", "merchantable quality", "match the description", and in the case of services such as installation and tuning "carried out with due care and skill" -- see ACC website

These are statutory warranties, and any warranty offered by a suppliers is viewed as additional to these, and cannot reduce those rights.

Therefore, every business selling goods and services in Australia needs to have insurance to cover these potential liabilities.

For the record, here are the additonal warranties relating to chip tunes, so far as I can find them:

APR
GIAC - this is the US warranty -- I guess it's the same in Australia
Powerchip
Oettinger
Revo Technik

Any others?

[gtimk5]

Good on you timbo, nice to see you have done a fair bit of research into the warrantees. Its good to see other warrantees at last, rather than picking on one particular company.
Cheers, Andrew

[Bug_racer]

Without starting an argument (and mods - we are not) - insurance is one thing - you state

Quote

"Oettingers warranty doesnt differ that from my workshop warranty . Maybe its there so that the chip company doesnt get a bad name if something fails and the workshop doesnt have its own warranty (that is quite common in the industry!)"

We are talking warranty, as in Oettingers warranty covers a specified, published list, and includes engine / gearbox / breakdown warranty - ie: the breakdown warranty covers you anywhere in Australia.

If you have no "warranty", you can state it, don't be asshamed if you are only using a "workshop liabilty" insurance & not offering a warranty as such.

As an Importer, wholesaler, retailer of performance products, we carry extensive "Insurance" include product liablity (which covers a product defect causing injury, death or loss of property or damage) as well as the usual "workshop" insurances which do not cover any of that. The cost of our insurance per year is about the smae as buying a Base Golf V.

Please elaborate on what your customers get!

This is actually a good string, as one of the first questions asked by customers is extent of warranty!

My insuance isnt quite that much , but then again I dont have 5 ? vehicles insured under the business banner .

My product liability is much smaller than yours cause I dont sell much products from O/S . Its based more upon workshop liability and not product liability although the kms driven and the time its been fitted doesnt matter between fitment faults and faulty goods . Your insurance and my insurance will be 2 different things , I just noted that a lot of the details on the Oettinger warranty are similar to whats on my insurance policy

[Guy_H]

Timbo is correct - the ACCC covers a lot of consumer items, BUT - on an imported product, the liability rests with the importer, not the manufacturer. Overseas warranties really do not have any bearing in Australia

Now our importers insurance, for a start, does not include our vehicles as Seb may believe. The astronomical cost is due to us (the importer) is being deemed the manufacturer of the product:

A good example:

You buy software from workshop "A" - and your car cuts out in the fast lane & you get flattened by a semi trailer - who do you sue (or your insurance company sue?) - the people who wrote your software in the US, Europe or Asia?

Same if you buy brakes or suspension, a component fails (this is different to "workshop insurance" where the mechanic may have incorrectley installed something or let something loose) - who do you sue? And if you bought it off ebay? Thats another issue.

The importer is liable as the manufacturer of the product under our law.

So if workshop "B" sells a product (software or hardware) and you have an issue, who covers it, and what if the importer does not have an insurance policy?

Anyway - The Oettinger warranty (insurance) is product specific, includes breakdown coverage in every state in Australia (if you breakdown on holidays etc) - its not "general liability" insurance or "general workshop" insurance.

It may be a good idea to check on the insurance coverage offered by retailers. You wouldnt contract a builder to build a house without making sure he was registered & insured would you?

The best Importers Automotive association we have found is the AAAA - www.aaaa.com.au - check it out, ask them the questions on what would happen if you had a problem!

[Timbo]

Just to respond to Guy, the first point of liability is in fact the dealer/workshop who sold & installed the product. More than likely, the lawyers will add the importer/manufacturer.

That's why the quality of the dealer is critical, in the first instance. Unfortunately in Australia, you can often locate the importer/distributor of a quality product, but then sometimes discover the local dealer knows bugger all about the product, has a workshop that looks like a chookyard...and you get the feeling the 'prentiss will be torture testing your mod on the trip for lunchtime 'burgers.

OK, I'm an old fart...so I readily admit I'll now happily accept a second best product from a quality dealer, simply because I have someone I'll trust and will go back to. On more than one occasion, I have even troubled the workshop I trust to fit a product that normally another dealer will handle. Yes, it'll cause all sorts of problems if something goes wrong, but the workshop is the key.

All this sounds very wise, but I am soon going to post about getting a mod to my car that breaks all my own rules

[mdonohoe]

I need to add something here. As a very recent customer of Guy's(today and yesterday, in fact). Remember the wheels & bonnet, Guy? :=)

The service, presentation, attention to detail and overall knowledge by Guy and Alex on all cars maintained by HP is nothing short of awesome.

At no point in time would I fear my car in their hands.

All of their cars were on display, and I'm sure if asked, they would readily offer a "drive" to a genuine customer to "check" their products.

I've been to some downright s*itty workshops. Of which, C & J Motorsports at springwood was the WORST. They do a fantastic tune and produce quality results, however, I dont trust a single person there with my car alone. To me, they came across rude, arrogent and unhelpful. The tune tho, was fantastic, drivable and economical!

Just my 2psi.

PS: I love the APR tune with the two maps. The stock map aint bad, but the 98 octane map makes me wish I had better tires

Matt

[Guy_H]

Hey Matt,

Glad you are enjoying it!

After seeing that black bonnet strip, I'm convinced its the way to go!

enjoy

[DaveMack]

Greetings,

Thanks so much for your reply!!!

Chips I think are ALWAYS going to be very sensitive, no matter what car/vehicle you speak about. One is always going have something over the other!

I currently reside in Park Ridge, QLD.

Thanks for your input tho!

Matt

One of the other things I could add here ... tried the Powerchip and sent it back. Guy let me try the six (engine) hours APR settings and they were great. Like those before me ... I'd say Giac or APR/Oettinger.

[beefa]

Curious why there is no mention from anyone about the Revo Technik flash ?
They seem to be on par with the figures quoted by the other people, yet only $1200 (Am i right that the others are around $1700?)

I spoke to Volkswagen Village at Kensington and they were happy to do a 6 hour trial flash as well.

Anyone have experience with this ?

http://www.revotechnik.com.au/ecu_pe...no_charts.html