disabling ESP

[ben22j]

tell me more. I've read that at in SEAT ibiza's (or was it cupra's) that there was too much rear brake bias when the fuse was disconnected. Have you found that to be a non issue - it hasn't tried to swap ends on you?
And whats the go with the ESP since ABS is disabled - does the ESP light still flicker when its wheel spinning? is there no difference whether the ESP button is on or off?

No I've never had the rears lock up. I have a 3km dirt driveway into work that I get pretty loose on each day.
I temporarily reconnected the fuse and found that I lost feel on the dirt and the Stability control would interfere with sliding through the corners.
As for the ESP, when the fuse is disconnected it is permanently switched off. The light stays illuminated on the dash all the time and the ESP no longer does anything.

Same deal on the track as well. Tried with the fuse both ways and I personally prefer it disconnected as there is no pesky stability control trying to wreck the party.

[sambb]

and can you left foot brake with the ABS disconnected without it feeling like someone flicked a kill switch?

[ben22j]

and can you left foot brake with the ABS disconnected without it feeling like someone flicked a kill switch?

Dunno, I'm not really Colin McCrae enough to left foot brake. I'm in the work truck tonight however I'll give it a go on the way home tomorrow arvo and let you know if it cuts power or not.

[sambb]

ha ha neither am I. I havent used it in about 10 years since my RS2000 and got a (not) nice surprise when I tried it in the Polo. I was glad to find out it wasn't a complete lack of talent - it'd be fun to re try some old footwork though just for the hell of it.

[Stuwey]

If you touch the brake first, then the throttle, it won't cut the power.

Practice makes perfect

[sambb]

just a follow up. There are two ESP fuses. A 10A one and a 5A one. The 10A one is a shared ABS/ESP circuit so I didn't pull that one. Judging by its rating I'm guessing its for the actuators/outputs of the ABS system. I did pull the 5A one though. It illuminates the ESP off switch, brings up the slippery road dash LED and definitely disables the TC. ABS stays active. Not sure yet about ESP interference though. Until I test that on a few corners where I normally get interference, this may not be any different to just pressing the ESP button. I'll keep you posted.

[sambb]

well I went for a very spirited run through the park and I'm pretty sure that the ESP seems to be disabled. There are a couple of spots where previously I could feel the power artificially restricted, but not this time through. With the ESP out of the game its amazing to see feel often it had been intruding. ie very subtley and a lot of the time, not just when you are having a moment. eg there were corners where previously at a fast but safe speed a slight lift would very promptly tuck the nose back into line. I'd just thought that was good handling (and driving haha!) but really I think a lot of that was ESP applying brake force on the inside rear, because it wasn't happening in the same way at all this time. The car feels a lot more real now, its handling traits aren't masked at all and you can really feel its weight, its weight shifts and handling deficiencies more too! A lot of that could be the abscence of TC too though. On really tight hillclimbs where you are throwing the car around alot and with sticky tyres I do think the car will be quicker this way though. I'd probably want ESP induced stability on the high speed stuff.
Also you wouldn't believe the fuel consumption. I reckon with ESP on, the brakes are literally 'primed' against the discs causing drag. The car feels freer and I could cruise consistently in 5th using mid 3's L/100km. I could never get lower than mid 4's before at the very best. I was even able to tootle along (not coasting) at 2.7L/100 at one stage - a big difference. I definitely don't remember fuel consumption being that good with just the ESP off button pressed before.
anyway, i'll keep testing it and then put the fuse back it in and compare it to the ESP off button being pressed to see if its all in my head.

[sambb]

another observation. I put the 5A ESP fuse back in and ran the car with the ESP first activated and then later de activated via the button. I pushed the car pretty hard through a 3rd gear test corner. With the ESP activated the dash symbol flashed and power delivery died in the arse when I was trying to get the power down hard on exit. With the ESP deactivated via the button I had no such dramas and the car just powered out of the corner - no engine power intervention (throttle cut?) and the same as when the 5A fuse is removed.
In both instances the car was on line coming out of the bend and not washing wide so I don't think it was a classic ESP situation. It was a traction control situation which is slightly different in that the wheel slip detected is where the wheel is spinning quicker than the average speed of the car or the powered wheel across from it (with ESP a slide is detected when a wheels speed starts moving SLOWER than the cars average speed).
So ESP button off = 5A fuse removed as far as traction control goes. What I'm not certain of is the difference each has for the ESP. It could be that with the ESP button off that ESP is still active (as everyone more or less suspects) but that its intervention threshold is moved much higher. Having said that I do stand by what I said re fuel consumption. I drove to work with the ESP on this morning and I couldn't get the car to cruise on the flat and especially not up slight hills as economically as it had with the 5A fuse out.
I'm going to try a couple more things:
- after a cruise devoid of braking get out and feel the disc temperatures. I'm guessing they'll be hotter with ESP engaged because I think brake pressure is at play here.
- I forgot to see if left foot braking was possible with the 5A fuse out.
- put the car into some strange positions on the track to see if ESP is capable of throttle cut like the traction control system is. I think it might be...

ie. I had another thought of why my car seems to be a victim of ESP intervention on the track. The car is set up stiff enough at the back to lift its inside rear through uphill and downhill tight hairpins. I think what might have been happening (and what will probably continue to happen unless I find a way to entirely get rid of ESP) is that the airborne wheel hangs in the air long enough to slow down relative to the other 3 wheels in contact with the ground. The system sees this as the car in an oversteer slide (although at the time its railing around the bend) and so starts trying to brake wheels to correct a slide that just isn't happening. Maybe then as a last resort ESP power cut comes in? because at the time there is no front wheel wheelspin.
ill keep you posted

[sambb]

well went for a drive to compare fuse in + ESP button off, and 5A fuse removed. Went through a 3rd gear roundabout with a fixed throttle setting and then left foot braked and in both instances power was cut immediately. I left my throttle foot exactly where it had been, took my foot off the brake and then after a slight delay the car went back to that throttle setting.
This could mean that 5A ESP fuse removed does not kill ESP or it could mean that this is part of the ABS computers responsibilities. I kind of tested that by doing the same thing in a straight line eg no yaw, no steering input and the same thing happened.
Think its just going to have to be at the track to look for any change to ESP function with the fuse removed.

[sambb]

Martin in the "rear brake upgrade" thread wrote:

"(In order to get that extra braking I had to get into VCDS and set the anti lock braking to low/late because the car could now brake harder/faster than the onboard computers though was possible)".

Wondering if any of those well versed in the nitty gritty of VCDS know where/how to do this?
sam