Why you need to use 504/507 oils in FSI/TSI/TDI engines!

[Diesel_vert]

For vehicles with direct-injection (DI) engines on fixed service intervals without a DPF, products that are approved to the following Volkswagen engine lubricant specifications may be used:

VW 502.00/505.00 or VW 502.00/505.00/505.01 or VW 504.00/507.00

In DI engines, fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber, bypassing the inlet valves and preventing it from cleaning the surface. A 2006 Lubrizol presentation, titled Lower SAPS engine oils, claimed that using a low-SAPS or mid-SAPS engine oil may reduce the formation rate of inlet valve deposits when compared to a full-SAPS engine oil.

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For the Australian market, possible sources of approved 504.00/507.00 lubricants are listed below.

Please note that some products may not be:
- available in retail stores
- imported by the distributor
- purchased in small quantities

Always check the label before purchasing.



Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Audi LongLife III 5W-30
Part number:
G AU 052 195 M2 (1L)
Refer to dealer

Bizol Technology 507 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Caltex Havoline Ultra V 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Castrol Edge LL 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$65.00/5L Cargear
$74.95/5L Spares Box
$74.99/5L Autobarn
$76.95/5L Supercheap Auto

Castrol Edge Professional Longlife III 5W-30
Information / Distributor
Refer to dealer

Elf Evolution Full-Tech LLX 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$84.99/5L Autobarn*

Eni i-Sint 5W-30
Information / Distributor (QLD)

Fuchs Titan GT1 PRO C-3 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$63.00/5L RedPoint
$69.95/5L Burson
$74.99/5L CDA Eastland
$76.89/5L MaxiParts

Global Racing Oil GXS 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Liqui-Moly Top Tec 4200 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$89.25/5L Car Parts Australia
$104.99/5L Autobarn
$105.00/5L Aftermarket 4X4
$106.95/5L Spares Box
$106.95/5L TheCarCareStore

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$72.50/5L GL Lubricants (eBay)
$75.00/5L PerformanceLUB (eBay)

Mobil Super 3000 Formula V 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Morris MultiLife V-Max 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$90.20/5L Lubricon

Motul 8100 X-clean+ 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$88.00/5L Autosphere
$108.95/5L Spares Box

Motul Specific 504 00-507 00 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$88.00/5L Autosphere
$109.99/5L Autobarn*
$110.00/5L Clickable Automotive
$118.95/5L Spares Box

Nulon European Engine Oil 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$58.00/5L Cargear
$69.95/5L Spares Box
$69.95/5L Supercheap Auto
$74.99/5L Autobarn

OWS GrandSport DPF 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Panolin Avanis SV-X 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Penrite Enviro+ 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$79.99/5L Autobarn
$79.99/5L Supercheap Auto

Pentosin Pento Super Performance III 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$107.75/5L Liquid Intelligence (eBay)

Petronas Syntium 5000 AV 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Q8 Formula VX Long Life 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Repsol Elite Long Life 50700/50400 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Rock Oil Synthesis Xtra-Life 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0W-30
Information / Distributor
$75.00/5L GL Lubricants (eBay)

Total Quartz Ineo Long Life 5W-30
Information / Distributor

Valvoline SynPower XL-III 5W-30
Information / Distributor
$69.99/5L Autobarn

Volkswagen LongLife III 5W-30
Part number:
G VW 052 195 M2 (1L)
Refer to dealer

Volkswagen Original Teile® LongLife III 5W-30
Part numbers:
G 052 195 M2 (1L)
G 052 195 M4 (5L)
G 052 195 M6 (60L)
Refer to dealer

*At selected stores only



Source: VW approved lubricants list

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[Corey_R]

Cheers. Although I'd be surprised if people intentionally ignore what the manufacturer recommends when it comes to oil. I mean, if you are cheap and don't use the recommended fuel, you could turn around and say "oh, I must've got a bad batch" or something. But if you use the wrong oil and your engine dies, VW service are going to see when they inspect the car, and I'm not sure you could then really use the "I got a bad batch" excuse.

[Tim]

Obviously specific oils are recommended for a reason and I agree that people should use them. The problem is that even using recommended oils, direct injection engines are suffering from massive intake buildups, so I dont think the above point is overly valid.

[Corey_R]

what's building up in the intakes? carbon?

[Transporter]

Sludge from EGR and PCV gases (engine crankcase fumes that re-enter into the intake manifold, fumes also contain oil particles).

[Diesel_vert]

The highly respected publication Auto Bild conduct 100,000 km long-term road tests of cars, and upon completion they perform a thorough tear down of the car, as shown below - quite impressive!

Dauertest Skoda Octavia Combi 1.6 FSI Ambiente — AUTO BILD 12/2008 — 01.04.2008

Captions translated by Google.


"100,000 km has survived our Octavia, great, because there is nothing to criticize. However, we have found some items that would under normal operation probably lead to repairs." (image 10 of 24)



"Traces of the exhaust gas recirculation: coal oil residues have been deposited on the intake ducts in the cylinder head..." (image 13 of 24)



"... and on the intake valves in the transition area of the valve stem and valve plate." (image 14 of 24)



"If a larger part of this debris is pulled in by the piston, this leads to scoring of the cylinder walls." (image 15 of 24)


Another example, this time a 2.0 TSI engine

VW Tiguan 2.0 TSI Sport & Style: Dauertest — AUTO BILD 14/2010 — 13.04.2010



No photos of valves this time though.


Obviously, using 504/507 oils won't stop deposit formation, but as shown by Lubrizol and Auto Bild, you can at least decrease the amount of deposit formation. To me it appears less severe compared to the photos that users are posting on other forums, considering the mileage (100,000 km) of these engines.

[Maverick]

Here is an incomplete list of 504/507 oils:

And here is a complete one.

Volkswagen 504.00/507.00 Approved Oils

Volkswagen Oil Standards – lists of all approved oils – Skoda – Audi – Seat

[Diesel_vert]

SAPS

Acronym for Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur. Traditionally found in the make up of motor oil components such as anti-wear, antioxidants, detergents and base oils.

Limits are being placed on SAPS as they reduce the life and performance of three-way catalysts in petrol engines and diesel particulate filters, devices bought about by Euro 4 emission standards.

This is countered by using higher quality base oils (Group III or IV), alternative additive packs & more sophisticated formulations. The reduction of sulphur content in fuels is also important for these reduced oils to function properly, otherwise the excess acidity would overwhelm it and wear the oil out quicker.


Volkswagen AG terminology

502.00
Oils designed for fixed service intervals. Often combined with 505.00. Quality of oil can vary enormously. Available in many grades, typically: 5W-40, 0W-40, 5W-30 & 0W-30.

505.01
Oils designed for fixed service intervals. Initially developed for Pumpe Düse (PD) TDI diesel engines and often combined with 505.00. Newer version is a mid-SAPS formulation if it also meets ACEA C3, and is often combined with 502.00/505.00. Available in two grades: 5W-40 and 5W-30.

Longlife
Currently a term used by VAG to denote the concept of variable service intervals via onboard oil quality monitors and sensors.

Longlife II
Oils designed for variable service intervals of between 15,000 km/1 year to 30,000/2 years. Can go as high as 50,000 km/2 years in certain 3 and 4 cylinder TDI engines. Subject to 503.00/506.00/506.01 approval and is only available in one grade: 0W-30.

Longlife III
Oils with reduced SAPS designed for variable service intervals of between 15,000 km/1 year and 30,000 km/2 years. Supersedes all previous VAG oil standards, except for R5 and V10 TDI engines built prior to 06/2006. Subject to 504.00/507.00 approval and is only available in two grades: 5W-30 and 0W-30.

You can still use Longlife oils even if you run on fixed service intervals. In fact VAG recommends that if the car's driven in harsh operating conditions you should ask the dealer to switch over to fixed service intervals (Australian delivered cars are on the fixed service intervals).


Lubrizol terminology (see presentation in first post)

To clarify what they mean by OEM-approved Euro 3 oils on slide 19 & 20:

Euro 3 oils
Usually for engines prior to introduction of Euro 4 emission standards (2005 and prior). Typically characterised by ACEA A5/B5 high-SAPS, or ACEA A3/B4 high-SAPS, such as 502.00 oils (high-SAPS).

Euro 4 oils
Usually for engines which meet Euro 4 emissions standards (2005 and onwards). Typically characterised by ACEA C1/C4 low-SAPS, or ACEA C2/C3 mid-SAPS, such as 504.00/507.00 oils (mid-SAPS).

All that buildup on the inlet valve occurred in just 15,000 km from using an OEM-approved Euro 3 oil...


Maximum allowable sulphur content in automotive fuels

Euro 3
2000 - Gasoline = 150 ppm
2000 - Diesel = 350 ppm

Euro 4
2005 - Gasoline & diesel = 50 ppm

Euro 5
2009 - Gasoline & diesel = 10 ppm (available since 2005)

Australia
2005 - Unleaded (91 RON) and unleaded E10 (93~94 RON) = 150 ppm
2008 - Premium unleaded (95~98 RON) = 50 ppm
2009 - Diesel = 10 ppm

USA
2006 - Gasoline = 80 ppm (refinery average = 30 ppm)
2010 - Diesel = 15 ppm (at least 80% by 2006)

[Diesel_vert]

Back in 2005, Agip introduced their Longlife III 504/507 oil, of which they wrote (in somewhat broken English)...

Product information - Agip 7008 - PDF file (74 KB)

The special Longlife III quality of Agip 7008 can be clarified with the following 5 criteria:

1. At the performance the Longlife III quality can be equated with the Longlife II quality. Thus also the new quality for the prolonged oil-change intervals (WIV) is permitted for vehicles with the classification QG1 on the data carrier. The performance meets a level according to ACEA A3/B4.

2. The fuel saving also has to be proven in the engine test and has to show at least the same dimensions as Longlife II oils.

3. Mid-SAPS oils contain a special additive package with a reduced content of ash forming components. Fewer particles are formed at the combustion which ensures a long operating life of the DPF.

4. The SAE 5W-30 is necessary for diesel vehicles with diesel particle filter (DPF), since the soot in the DPF has to be burned at certain intervals.
This is made possible by an increased amount of fuel injection. However through this also a clear engine oil thinning can appear which could lead to a critical area of the engine lubrication at a SAE 0W-30. The 5W viscosity takes care of the necessary safety of the engine lubrication.

5. Highest requirements on the cleanliness of the inlet valves of the FSI engines (direct injecting gasoline engine).
Since there is no more contact of the additivated fuel with the inlet valve, the partially oil conditioned deposits cannot be reduced over its cleaning ability anymore.

So it's not just a matter using a low or mid-SAPS oil - how the oil is formulated also needs to be taken into consideration.

[Diesel_vert]

So why have we been told to use 502.00 high-SAPS oils in our FSI or TSI engines?

BTW, is this still the official recommendation for Australia? My theory is, until as recently as 2008 the sulphur content in all grades of Australian petrol could have been up to 150 ppm. (!) But even though 50 ppm petrol such as BP Ulimate (now I know why VW kept recommending it) was available well before the 2008 deadline, there was no legal obligation to do so until then (as if VW could force everyone to use only BP). Combine that with the rarity and price of 504/507 oils early on, perhaps 502 oils looked to be a safer recommendation until the situation improved. I bet VW of America (VWoA) faced a similar situation.

Now at least our premium unleaded is at a Euro 4 equivalency. I'm of the opinion that although the sulphur level is high enough not to warrant the use of variable service intervals, it's low enough such that mid-SAPS oils like 504/507 shouldn't have much trouble coping, which would negate the main concern of using reduced SAPS oils.