P-Plate High Performance Vehicles

[Big Yellow]

Doesn't Victoria already use Power-to-wait ratio

yeah they do,

but they might haved added in the turbo/supercharge clause too.

[roy]

vicroads has exemption for P plate about lower performance supercharged/turbocharged Vehicle

[team_v]

Whilst manufacturer weights and power figures would be just as easy to enforce, aftermarket modifications would require individiaul checks on the weight and power of selected vehicles to ensure that the fine is legit.

So banning cars with power to weight ratio's would be a better system but how are the police going to know if you did an ECU and intake mod and removed the spare tyre and used lightweight rims putting over the power/weight limit that stated the car was driveable?

I don't agree with the current system but it is the easiest system to enforce out of the other alternatives in my opinion.

[gareth_oau]

This topic comes up every week.


Consider how hard it would be to enforce a power to weight ratio on vehicles.
DOT would require a dyno and a automotive scale to work out if your car is legal or not.

By the time they give you the infringement notice and get you to go to teh checking area, you could have already modified the vehicle back to a more stock form or added extra weight to teh car to bring it under the threshold.

Registration and license fees would also increase in order to have these stations installed in every major city in the QLD to allow the enforcement of a "proper" restriction system.


The current system is flawed, however it is easily enforceable and as such provides minimum impact to drivers, the state and your wallet.

Team V, an easy way for the government is to base the power to weight ratio approvals on ex factory vehicles, and any mods at all will require the owner to obtain (at his/her expense) a certified 'ptwr' to be presented before the car would be approved.

[team_v]

Team V, an easy way for the government is to base the power to weight ratio approvals on ex factory vehicles, and any mods at all will require the owner to obtain (at his/her expense) a certified 'ptwr' to be presented before the car would be approved.

That could be a viable solution.
Any modifications performed on the car to require a DOT certificate (sort of like the engineering certificate for high performance mods now)

Then they just need to put a plaque on the inside of the engine bay/door sill with the registered modification number and link the database of certifications to police PDA's.

Of course there will be a few people who try to go illegal and mod their cars without certification however it would allow a better equilibrium than we have now.

[sreay]

its supercharged/turbo charged and its 118kw not 90kw unless of single turbo

quote from http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...010760,00.html

"Even the Carsguide Car of the Year, the 1.4-litre, twin-turbocharged VW Golf, which has a five-star safety rating and features six airbags and stability control, is on the banned list because it has a turbocharger. Yet is has an output of 90kilowatts of power, which is 10kW less than a Toyota Corolla."

[bmck]

Sreay,

Yes, there were a few inaccuracies in the story (seven airbags, not six), but the intent remains the same - and, if anything, the 90kw scenario hightlights the case moreso.

[GolfAtom]

Saw a P plated Porsche Boxster in the weekend driven by a tentative novice...shouldn't the Boxster be on the banned list? I agree with a lot of the comments here that power-to-weight ratio should be one of the criterion for the p-platers banned list of vehicles but in the end, it's only a band-aid solution - it's the person behind the wheel that counts. It's only those hoons who make it difficult for majority.

[The_Hawk]

Whilst manufacturer weights and power figures would be just as easy to enforce, aftermarket modifications would require individiaul checks on the weight and power of selected vehicles to ensure that the fine is legit.

So banning cars with power to weight ratio's would be a better system but how are the police going to know if you did an ECU and intake mod and removed the spare tyre and used lightweight rims putting over the power/weight limit that stated the car was driveable?

I don't agree with the current system but it is the easiest system to enforce out of the other alternatives in my opinion.

Agreed, people could mod their otherwise standard cars past a line in the sand, especially with new turbo engines. But if we look at this for a minute, I have taken the base model with auto transmission where there is an option:

The new 3L Holden 6 is 190kW @ 1,685kg = ~113kW/T
V6 (older style engine) ute is 210kW @ 1783kg = ~121kW/T
Ford Falcon is 195kW @ 1,704kw = ~114kW/T.
Toyota Camry has 117kw and comes in at ~82kW/T
The Carolla isn't far behind at ~79kW/T


Golf 77TDI (DSG) is 77kW @ 1,330 = ~58kW/T
Golf 103TDI (DSG) is 103kW @ 1,380 = ~75kW/T
Golf 90TSI (DSG) is 90kW @ 1,290 = ~70kW/T
Golf 118TSI (DSG) is 118kW @ 1,330 = ~89kW/T
Golf GTI (DSG) is 155kW @ 1,380kg = ~112kW/T
Golf R32 (DSG) is 184kW @ 1,530kg = ~120kW/T

Looking at only the two standard Aussie "family sedans" you can see any power to weight would have to be over those figures as a minimum which easily includes the Golf's including the GTI, hell the 118TSI at it's beastly ~89kW/T is barely more powerful than a Carolla (although I know which one I want). Assuming a V6 Holden ute is legal you include the R32 too

I understand it would be hard(er) to manage if people mod their vehicles, but I would suggest that would be the minority (of p plater drivers). The same approach to what we do now for noise or pollution can work just as easily, basically if you get pinged you must get it tested, otherwise it's assumed it's within limits. When it comes to enforcement YES! People could break the law and mod their cars in one way or another to get more power out and YES they could run different tunes to achieve that, although I'd take a stab and say these people most likely just drive round their turbo or V8 cars now anyway.

From the higher end of town:
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo is 217kW @ 1,595kw = ~136kW/T
The Subaru Impreza WRX (manual) is 195kW @ 1,410kg = ~138kW/T
The Nissan Silvia is 184kW @ 1270kg = ~145kw/T
(In it's NA form it's 121kW = ~95kW)
The Commodore SS V8 is 260kW @ 1,777kg = ~146kW/T


The "line" would have to be somewhere in between these and the above.

To be honest I'm a little surprised at the results, I didn't think they would all be so close, but here we are. Setting a limit at 125kW/T covers all the "family cars" but includes some decent opions from the VAG garage. In many respects an inexperienced driver would be better off behind the wheel of a GTI than they would the [comparatively] boat like Commodore with his foot to the floor.

[bmck]

Setting a limit at 125kW/T covers all the "family cars" but includes some decent opions from the VAG garage. In many respects an inexperienced driver would be better off behind the wheel of a GTI than they would the [comparatively] boat like Commodore with his foot to the floor.

Hawk,

Well said.

Here's a story from March '09 suggesting that Victoria agrees with your suggestion of 125kW/t (However, again, I can see problems with their definition (whatever it is) of "family type" and "sport type")

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257582000FE339