New Golf Rs and GTIs will have updated software that can disable ESP completely

**ethosguy** · 12-02-2011, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by chylld

mate the topic of ABS was already closed by post #35 in this thread. but you seem to have put a lot of effort into that post, so i trust it makes you feel better - good for you!

i'm wondering what VW are envisaging by forcing the ESP back on if you dab the brakes whilst sliding. i think they're just assuming that people will hit the brakes when they panic and that they don't know what they're doing - but what if an enthusiastic R driver flicks his R into a left-hand corner, gets some angle on it, tries to adjust with the throttle and then dabs the brake? if ESP cuts in, it'll flick him violently back to straight ahead, and if he still has the wheel turned right from the slide then i can't see that ending nicely

finally...some who gets ít'...

**ethosguy** · 12-02-2011, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Lima

But that's completely missing the point of ESP. In most cases it is not designed to be a driver aid for track use. It is designed to assist a driver who has lost control, most likely in a completely unexpected situation, eg. someone running out on the road, another vehicle crossing into your path and requiring evasive action etc.

I think people forget that other people use the road too, and while that happens, it doesn't matter how mad you think your skillz are you can never rule out the unexpected.

That'd be skills, mate...
The inference was what is the loss (in a quantified time measurement) of control taken by ESP from the driver who knows how to deliberibatly and preemptively unsettle the car to ensure it is dynamically balanced when and how will be needed for the next thing.

ESP CAN ONLY REACT TO THE NOW. AI has a long way to go.

A bunch of you guys would do well to buy a cheap gravel rally car and go learn car contol. Then run a season or two to learn to use car control to go fast. Your view of ESP, as is sold to us on consumer cars, will be forever altered.
And please, don't go flaming me about on the road and normal people...I've been there, at length, earlier. Were talking about a particular constrained user group with heightened sensibilities.

**mfl** · 12-02-2011, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by ethosguy

That'd be skills, mate...
The inference was what is the loss (in a quantified time measurement) of control taken by ESP from the driver who knows how to deliberibatly and preemptively unsettle the car to ensure it is dynamically balanced when and how will be needed for the next thing..

very well said,
I believe on the newer Ferraris and other high performance cars (eg BMW M3)the ESP and electronic diffs settings can be altered to allow for track use when required. It would be have been good to see this kind of variable ESP settings on the GTI and R models.

**ethosguy** · 12-02-2011, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by mfl

very well said,
I believe on the newer Ferraris and other high performance cars (eg BMW M3)the ESP and electronic diffs settings can be altered to allow for track use when required. It would be have been good to see this kind of variable ESP settings on the GTI and R models.

A Golf R is a stretch right now...dammed mortage...maybe if I gave up dirtbikes I'd have more coin for cars but the opportunity and cost to run them as hard as I ca on the bikes is exponantial...

**Lima** · 12-02-2011, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by ethosguy

That'd be skills, mate...
The inference was what is the loss (in a quantified time measurement) of control taken by ESP from the driver who knows how to deliberibatly and preemptively unsettle the car to ensure it is dynamically balanced when and how will be needed for the next thing.

ESP CAN ONLY REACT TO THE NOW. AI has a long way to go.

A bunch of you guys would do well to buy a cheap gravel rally car and go learn car contol. Then run a season or two to learn to use car control to go fast. Your view of ESP, as is sold to us on consumer cars, will be forever altered.
And please, don't go flaming me about on the road and normal people...I've been there, at length, earlier. Were talking about a particular constrained user group with heightened sensibilities.

I learnt to drive on the dirt roads outside Yass in an HG Premier with 3 on the tree. As soon as I got my Ps my weekends were about throwing that thing around on loose surfaces. I had a lot of fun in that car. I also had around 15 years experience before having a car with traction control or DSC (as it was called on my MINI). I don't think I'm all that by any means, but I've had plenty of time driving without electronic driver aids.

The point is, public roads are not really the best place to be telling yourself what a hero you are. But, I guess it's about personal responsibilty and if one chooses to turn off ESP and the like and it goes tits up well that's fair enough I guess.

I've had DSC save me from a stack in the MINI when I got a bit too clever for my own good and I'd just feel a bit daft if I turned off ESP on a public road and binned it. I don't mind a decent punt out on twistys, but if I want to seriously push the limits and truly test myself then I'll go to the track for that.

Maybe I'm just becoming an old fart, but out on the twisties the possibilty of having a motorbike coming in the opposite direction leaning over the centre line into my lane is very real, so I think it prudent to leave a couple of tenths up my sleeve. For me, that includes leaving ESP on.

**dave_r** · 15-02-2011, 01:52 PM

Can't believe the soapbox stuff in here about ESP being the ultimate road safety failsafe. How much bloody nannying do some of you need. ESP, Radar Cruise Control and all that junk. Just bring in the automated/robot cars and do away with the driver completely ffs. The reality is that ****heads are still going to get themselves into sticky situations in the wrong places with or without ESP.

**DreamensioN** · 15-02-2011, 02:55 PM

Ok...so..... back on topic.

ESP = Off will be available in GTi's and R's from May 2011 onwards. Does anybody know if it can be retrofitted/flashed/coded/firmwared into exisiting GTi's and R's?

Reason I ask is that I would love to have ESP off for some all-wheel drift action on a skidpan, but I'm expecting a delivery date of June for my Golf R, which means it'll be manufactured, when? March? April? etc - so I might just miss out.

**hooba** · 15-02-2011, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by DreamensioN

ESP = Off will be available in GTi's and R's from May 2011 onwards.

I'm interested in where did you get your information from and can it be verified?

**MIRSAD** · 15-02-2011, 09:21 PM

Google translation from German website:

"New ESP? Yes, because as of model year 2012 can be in the Golf and Scirocco R disable the ESP. For this, the ESP button pressed in order to prevent misuse. New and interesting is that the ESP in the background continues to monitor the driving conditions. If the driver in critical driving conditions the brake engages, and the system stabilizes the vehicle. As soon as the race car is back on the right track, can be further drifted to their heart's content."

Full article:

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