MK6 GTI - Rattle upon acceleration - Resolved via TPI: 2021062/7

[G-rig]

Yeah seems like it's normal and nothing to worry about.

[GTICam]

I disagree. This is crap. We are swallowing the line that “this is a normal characteristic of the vehicle” and going away with our stereos turned up another notch!
Call me cynical but;
Lets say, for the sake of this discussion, that the noise is emanating from…oh perhaps, a poorly designed muffler with a baffle that resonates at 2400 to 2800rpm .
From what Coreying says, (and I don’t know any different) that the engine/turbo on the MK5 and Mk6 is pretty much identical and only the exhaust system is different, then one would expect Mk5 GTIs to have the same or similar resonant buzzing noise…ie same wastgate control rod. Do they?
Now lets imagine you are VW. You discover your new Mk6 product has an annoying buzz in the muffler, and face replacing all GTI mufflers under warrantee. So you try one on. Because GTI buyers are a pretty passionate bunch and love their cars, you tell them this noise is a normal characteristic of the car. To add credence to your story you tell them the noise is coming from a wastegate adjustment rod. If that’s the real problem, I think it’d be no problem to make the rod from a different material or to clamp a small weight onto the rod to change it’s resonant frequency. I also wondered (now this is really cynical, but hey, I’m an engineer), how they found out it was the wastegate control rod.. Think about it. The only way you find something like that is to FIX it. Because the noise occurs under load, there’s no way to see if it’s the wastegate rod that’s causing the noise. (Unless they found a really small VW engineer to ride under the bonnet while someone drove the car! Before you laugh, I’ve seen pics of Bruce McLaren sitting on the front of a bodiless McLaren M8 Can Am while Denny Hulme drove, so Bruce could watch what the suspension was doing. Somehow, I can’t see VW doing that!)
When I took my GTI back to the VW dealer today with a description of the noise and demonstrated it to one of the service blokes, he said there had been at least 4 other customers with the same complaint, but there was no solution from VW yet… when I picked up my car I received my very own copy of the "this is normal" letter.
Anyone tried an aftermarket muffler?

[MIRSAD]

What about poll:

"Are You irritated by rattling noise"

and only for people that are actually experiencing it (on their GTI).

Opinion based on: test drive, friends' GTI, discussions, forums, experience with other cars ... all of this not valid.

[Corey_R]

Well Guys - here is the thing.

I've already said that if YOU guys disagree with Volkswagen then YOU guys need to prove them wrong!
There is no point all sitting on here and having a cry to each other. SOMEONE who has the issue needs to take it to a knowledgable mechanic who ISN'T affiliated with VW and get them to help!

Now Guy_H has already said that he'd love to hear from someone in the Brisbane area that can demonstrate this issue to him - even if at the moment it's simply because he's interested in what the sound IS, since he's never heard it on the many MK6's he's had through the shop.

If no one here is in Brisbane, then you'll have to find someone else.

But until someone does something, all you can do is take VW's word for it that the noise comes from the wastegate rod, that it's the same build as the MKV, and that there is no issue with it.

[MIRSAD]

Well Guys - here is the thing.

I've already said that if YOU guys disagree with Volkswagen then YOU guys need to prove them wrong!
There is no point all sitting on here and having a cry to each other. SOMEONE who has the issue needs to take it to a knowledgable mechanic who ISN'T affiliated with VW and get them to help!

Now Guy_H has already said that he'd love to hear from someone in the Brisbane area that can demonstrate this issue to him - even if at the moment it's simply because he's interested in what the sound IS, since he's never heard it on the many MK6's he's had through the shop.

If no one here is in Brisbane, then you'll have to find someone else.

But until someone does something, all you can do is take VW's word for it that the noise comes from the wastegate rod, that it's the same build as the MKV, and that there is no issue with it.

I am talking about myself.

"... disagree with Volkswagen then YOU guys need to prove them wrong" ?
VW already agree with me - there is so called rattling noise ... We disagree on character of that noise: for them it is normal ... for me it is slightly irritating (love my car anyway) ... how can I prove them that is irritating????

Stupid question but "Does it mean if You don't have that noise than Your GTI is not OK" or at least does not have character.

Is it mechanically OK not only today but in 3+ years time ... I hope so.

Just as parallel look again in my old story:
First: I was told by VW that squealing noise on my 118TSI was not OK - result w/pump replaced,
Second: when noise come back (after 2 months) I was by told it is normal and it is characteristic of the car (not every 118TSI was blessed with that noise) ,
Third: from Mar 2010 they have new pump for 118TSI (because previous one was OK - according to VWA) and they are replacing some on old one.


Once again with or without that noise ... love my car (would be happier and less worried without it)

[G-rig]

It's good to check out noises to make sure nothing is wrong with your car, but also could be new car paranoia as far as rattles etc (which is fair to expect after forking out for new over used cars).

I'm still not sure what the noise is meant to sound like either, but wouldn't mind seeing this letter that states it is normal, someone able to post it up?

GTICam - how would replacing the muffler help if its going to be the same design etc? Most exhausts probably amplify noises if you go any bigger (however the RSC sounds a bit special and may even be slightly quieter than stock when not getting up it).

[Super]

Think about it. The only way you find something like that is to FIX it

there had been at least 4 other customers with the same complaint, but there was no solution from VW yet

when I picked up my car I received my very own copy of the "this is normal" letter

Make no mistake, Volkswagen would definitely know that theres an issue that needs to be addressed. Even if it affects 1 in 20 GTIs they'd be selling enough of them to receive enough complaints from customers.

Identifying and fixing the issue are two different things though. Im sure a VW engineer somewhere in Germany knows exactly what the issue is, but implementing a fix on a production vehicle surely takes time. In all likelihood, this will be addressed in the next iteration of the GTI (presuming it isnt particularly expensive to address).

Then theres the issue of the thousands of vehicles out there on the road. VW (the manufacturer) would go through some sort of process to work out the extent and severity of the problem, and (you would hope) respond appropriately. The weakest response would be to completely ignore it (if too few complaints, or doesnt impact upon the functioning of the vehicle). The strongest response would be to instigate a full blown product recall.

At any rate, the VW dealer simply gets told what the fix is. For now, that seems to be 'its a characteristic of the vehicle', but hopefully theres a better resolution coming our way in the near future.

[Corey_R]

Is it mechanically OK not only today but in 3+ years time ... I hope so.

If the information we have is correct, then yes, it will be. There are an awful lot of MKV GTI's from 2005 and 2006 out there running around just fine

[Guy_H]

My suggestion for RESOLUTION and to make you all happy MKVI GTI customers (does not effect those who are happy with their MK6's & the noise they make standard):

1: Register your concern with your local VW service department & get a copy of the letter stating what the "noise" is. This should cover you if you have a failure associated with the exact problem even after the 3 year warranty period is up.

2: Consult a local Automotive Engineer (RACQ, NRMA, RACV all offer this sort of service). Ask them to investigate the "fault" or "noise". It may cost you to do this, but some offer it as a free service to members. Get written documentation from them stating the cause & a technical case for a remedy (if they see a need for one). Take this information back to your VW dealer & present it to them in a nice way.

If you do not reach a satisfactory conclusion from this, I would suggest you take all the information to your local consumer affairs body. They will ensure that it gets looked at under the relevant laws & help the parties come to an agreement (or force a resolution if required).

I would be very interested in seeing a third party engineers report on the "fault" or "noise".

[Guy_H]

Another suggestion - If everyone who has the problem (or thinks they have the problem) chips in $50 bucks each, I'm sure we can afford the best Automotive Engineer in the country to investigate it from top to bottom!