mk6 dealer negotiations

[twotribez]

oh I see, so would the tsi be a better engine to get over diesel ? I read so many people have TDI on this forum.

thank you

Depends if you feel the same way or not as Jeremy Clarkson about diesel.

If the kms you are driving justifies the extra cost of diesel then go for it. For me, I almost purchased a BMW 320d as the diesel engine was amazing. First time I drove a diesel and the torque on it was brilliant.

But after driving the 118TSI, I thought jeez this is a damn good engine. It is very torquey as well and with the DSG gear box it was a no brainer, plus its super quiet, inaudible at traffic lights. Plus the fact that I don't drive anywhere near to 20000km a year, the extra cost for me was just not worth it.

[tdi guy]

If a Pirelli came with all of those extras for the same price as a regular GTI I would agree wholeheartedly, but a Pirelli costs thousands ($5k?) more, doesn't it? In which case a $45k Pirelli can hardly devalue a $40k GTI. For buyers who don't seek the additional performance features and fancy trim, it would probably make the GTI look even better value and so support its resale value. For mine, I'd choose a $40k GTI over a $45k Pirelli so for me and others like me the Pirelli makes the GTI even better value.

Ah the Pirelli is a different question... I agree the MKVI GTI won't affect the resale value of the Pirelli, its the regular MKV GTI I was referring to.

TG

[gregozedobe]

oh I see, so would the tsi be a better engine to get over diesel ? I read so many people have TDI on this forum.

Lots of different opinions on this Here are mine :

If you do a lot of Kms per year then the fuel economy of the TDI makes it cheaper to own over several years. If you are really looking at saving $$$ then you need to look at the total "cost of ownership", including depreciation, insurance, servicing, consumables such as tyres, brake pads and discs etc etc. Also most petrol VWs run better on 98 octane petrol, which is much dearer than std ULP.

If you are considering buying a new VW then you aren't looking at low budget cars anyway. If I was buying a small/medium hatch back mainly on the whole of life cost basis I'd look seriously at a Honda Jazz, and maybe a few other asian cars.

Some repairs on VWs can be both too common and too expensive (eg aircon, turbos on TDIs), so many people either turn over their cars before the warranty runs out or buy the VW extended warranty.

My usual advice is to take each contender for a decent test drive (preferably on the same roads), and buy the one you like best. Everyone has different preferences and priorities, so what is best for me may be totally unsuitable for you.

If you are looking at driving a TDI in lots of heavy traffic make sure you try a DSG version as well as a manual, and research DPF regeneration too.

The more info you have the better the decision you can make.

[Dubya]

If buying a MK6 I would get the TDI with DSG, sportspack and ACC - IMO for most people as good as a GTI (I would have to change my login to TDI guy)

Why the change of heart, tsi guy?

After all, in the Mark VI range the price differential between the 103TDI and petrol equivalent (118TSI) has increased to $2,700 and the performance and economy of the petrol equivalent have increased whereas the diesel's performance (0-100km/h), though now aided by common rail injection, is unchanged.

So I can see how the 118TSI (8.0 sec 0-100km/h) could be a potential substitute for the GTI (7.2 sec (man)), but a 103TDI (9.3 sec)?

On paper, the 118TSI is even quicker than the Mark V 125TDI to 100km/h.

In terms of fuel savings, assuming the diesel would use 1.5 litres less per 100km (the specs suggest a saving of only 1l/100km), at $1.50 per litre it would take 120,000km to recoup the price difference. Add in the cost of money and it would be over 180,000km (which it would be anyway using VW's fuel consumption figures). And that does not take into account depreciation on the extra $2,700.

Of course price is not the only consideration, but, as the TSI is quicker on paper (ie unloaded and on the flat) than every Golf diesel variant, it seems a more worthy GTI substitute than the TDI.

Would a Mark V TSI driver really be willing to pay nearly $3k over the cost of a the new TSI to drive the TDI?

The better questions perhaps are:

Do you need the diesel's extra (33%) torque and is it worth the extra dosh? and

What is your annual mileage?

[Dubya]

Ah the Pirelli is a different question... I agree the MKVI GTI won't affect the resale value of the Pirelli, its the regular MKV GTI I was referring to.TG

I too was referring to the Mark V GTI.

I based my comments about Mk V GTI values on the premise that introducing a variant such as the Pirelli at a 15% premium to a regular GTI is not prone to devalue the second hand values of Mk V GTIs.

Could the Pirelli hurt Mk V R32 values? Conceivably: the Pirelli narrows the performance and price gap between the two.

Granted, if VGA did a 'Pacific' and threw in factory extras on run-out GTIs then I could see a problem. But not when the extras, as in the case of the Pirelli, are priced at $6k extra.

As for the Mk VI GTI's effect on Mk V GTI resale values, as I said, I think this will be less than for other series changes as the changes between the Mk V and VI GTIs are relatively modest.

[tdi guy]

Why the change of heart, tsi guy?

I agree with all your comments (couldnt have put them better myself - just wait for the 'oiler' backlash ).

However, I bought the GT Sport because it was a family car with sporty overtones (a poor-man's GTI, but 5k cheaper and with a better ride). The 118TSI is clearly a good car, but not the same...

This time around, I would likely buy the MKVI GTI (with the optional ACC to improve the ride), but if the extra 7k (including ACC) was a problem then I'd be tempted to switch to the TDI (which apparently is the better combo with the DSG, especially in D where the DSG preference of changing up and down between 2000 and 3000rpm so perfectly matches the useful rev range of the TDI). It would be a tough choice, though, as I don't do enough km to recoup the TDI price differential, and the TSI is such a sweet thing...

Happily, I don't have to make that choice (very happy with the TSI GT ).

T(si)G (for the foreseeable future)

[tdi guy]

As for the Mk VI GTI's effect on Mk V GTI resale values, as I said, I think this will be less than for other series changes as the changes between the Mk V and VI GTIs are relatively modest.

I agree. The MKV GTI was apparently a MUCH better/sportier car than the MK4...

TG

[Dubya]

Happily, I don't have to make that choice (very happy with the TSI GT).

That's all good, but, as you would know, there's a 30% investment allowance (typically for companies) which, for those who can take advantage of it, could make upgrading prior to 30 June 2009 attractive and the numbers quite interesting.

That's an immediate deduction of ~$10k on a TSI.

Tempted?

[twotribez]

hahaha get a TSI, its GOOOOOODDDD. waiting for a few more hundred kms on the clock before I try the car out in S instead of D

[Ozram]

Dubya,

You've worked out the price differntial between diesel & petrol on the Mk6 pretty much the same as I had. I'll be doing about 25,00km a year and would not get anywhere near break even point when it comes time to trade to the next new one.

I'm an oiler (nice one TSI ), have been for 30 years. I've driven the Mk5 TDI with DSG and it is a fabulous vehicle. I have been driving the 1.9 PD Caddy for nearly three years and that is pretty awesome too.

Guess what? I am buying the 118TSI with DSG! Primarily for the difference in cost on the engines, but also cos I just know that the missus is gonna fill it up with ULP

I also know how many thousands of dollars that complete common rail systems cost when you put contaminated/ bio / poor lubricity diesel in them.

The choice is a no brainer IMHO.