Mk VI GTi - Noise upon start up in cold weather

[slam]

Now that the overnight temperature is getting lower (therefore the oil is getting thicker), I’ve been noticing a noise upon start up in the morning which only lasts 1 – 2 seconds.

It’s a mechanical noise, louder and slightly higher pitched than the normal idling noise. Sounds like it takes the oil 1 – 2 seconds to get around the entire engine to quieten things down.

My car is 11 months old, with 10,000km on the clock. The oil level is good – I check it regularly – I’ve had to add 3L so far in the last 10,000km to keep the level within the normal range on the dip stick.

The only other times I’ve noticed this noise upon start up in my previous cars was when I changed the oil filter and oil, after draining it completely from the sump. In those cases, it is understandable that it will take the oil a second or so to get around the engine.

But I'm now getting this every morning. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it normal?

[Alok]

I've been having the noise you're describing for a while now on my 90TSI (2009). I'm wating for my next service to get it checked out. Good thing I got the exte

[RW1]

The description fits the Camshaft Adjuster is not working properly.

VW will want the Camshaft Adjuster to be replaced on the Timing Chain end of the Inlet Camshaft which means the right side of the engine has to come off to release the Timing Chain. Not heard of a 2.0ltr engine doing it before. Not aware of a bulletin on for the 2.0 ltr but there certainly a bulletin is for the smaller 1.2, 1.4, 1.6 engine family. Not surprised its occurred on a 2.0 ltr as the design principles are the same.

Here's the background, ignore its Honda. VW system is a straight copy.



Sounds like this when it starts malfunctioning.....



It only lasts for about 2 to 3 seconds. Either engine despite the video's engine.

That said, I have had the same if it is this. Despite changing oil out every 4,000 Km (6 months) over the 25Km I have driven which mainly consists short urban trips of 6 miles each.

It wouldn't rectify with an oil flush additive followed by fresh oil/filter.

I fixed it by a simple exercising routine of the Solenoid Control Valve while the engine is hot. Went through trial and small results by initially using VCDS Output Tests - 03 to exercise N205 - Camshaft Spool Valve (pulsing 5 volt output), a little improvement. Then used a small 9 volt battery, again pulsed - little more improvement. Finally did the "Fix" below with pulsing 12 volts from the car's battery to drive the valve in either direction.

I did the "Fix" in early April 2012 some 2,000 Km ago and its not returned. Not only that, fuel consumption has reduced by 8% - 10% with a lot smoother engine.

I didn't want half the engine taken apart to change the Camshaft Adjuster, so I made a tool up like this......



It consists of:

- Connector body - 1J0 973 702, (Check the 2.0ltr engine connector part number as this is for the 1.4TSi engines)
- VW Repair Wire - 000 979 131E, (Cut in half to make two short wire ends.)
- Then crimp on extension wires to reach over to the car's car battery. (Red and Blue wire in the photos, polarity will not matter when exercising the valve. Camshaft Adjuster Solnoid Valve has a resistence of 7.4 Ohms. The resistance varies a little between engine sizes and at 12.25 volts from the battery that meant 1.66 amps would be flowing in the wires. So don't use skimpy extension wires!)

The "tool" in the UK cost about £6 to make. (Didn't fancy shorting contacts with the car battery inside the Camshaft Adjuster Soleniod Valve connection housing with loose wires! The plug connection ensures that does not happen. The Valve costs £70.)

What you do is the following:



NB 2.0 ltr engine this electrical connection is on the side of the engine in line with the camshaft axis.

Method

With the engine hot at operating oil temperature 90'C ish level (or 20 minutes after 90'C coolant is acheived):

- With the engine switched OFF, what you do is give the Valve a series of short pulses, about 15 to 20 while the engine is still very warm.

- Hold one wire end to the Battery negative while dabbing the other wire on the Battery positive terminal.

- Then reverse the tool's connections to the Scirocco's Battery and do another 15 to 20 pulses.
Each pulse is about 1/8th of a second ON with a 1/2 second OFF pause inbetween. Tick, tick, tick.......

- Disconnect the homemade tool, reconnect the engine loom's connector to the Solenoid Valve.

- Replace the Engine Cover.

Job done!

Took longer to make the tool than the 40 seconds pulsing the the valve both ways.

I reckon with short runs this valve gums up along with the Camshaft Adjuster's Advance and Retard Oil Chambers. After the 12 volt pulsing there was a steady improvement of the engine running over the following 2 to 4 weeks as though the Adjuster System was steadily cleaning itself out.

This is why the "Fix" is performed on a hot engine rather than cold/warm, so the oil in the spool valve will offer the least resistance to the Spool Valve movement momentarily energised by the 12 volts pulsing.

No oil flush additive will be strong enough in the time given its use in the engine to clean out the oil feed artery or the spool valve itself. I found there was no impact on the problem what so ever using flush additive.

I had a couple of re-occurrances straight afterwards but have found after 2 weeks it has totally gone with Kpl fuel consumption steadily improving to the above I mention of 8% - 10% improvement. The spark plugs also have shown signs of much cleaner combustion.

[AdamD]

Great post RW1!

[slam]

Thanks very much for the most comprehensive post RW1 ! The video in your post on the 1.4TSi - that sounds like a diesel for the first few seconds! The noise I'm referring to is nowhere near as loud and "rattly" as that. It's still a petrol like "whirl", just slightly louder and higher pitch.

[RW1]

The only other times I’ve noticed this noise upon start up in my previous cars was when I changed the oil filter and oil, after draining it completely from the sump. In those cases, it is understandable that it will take the oil a second or so to get around the engine.

Thanks for the compliments.

This made me think it maybe the above. Never mind, at least its one down, "x" to go. Might be worth posting the sound (SoundCloud - Share Your Sounds).

[Titanium]

Exact noise you describe....to me it happens when I am accelerating from standstill immediately after a very cold start under some load (uphill)....almost sounds like a fanbelt whine.....but only happens when very cold and only the first movement about when the clutch bites By the time I stop at the end of my street (300metres) it won't do it again.
Mine is a Manual 2010 Mk 6 GTI

Now that the overnight temperature is getting lower (therefore the oil is getting thicker), I’ve been noticing a noise upon start up in the morning which only lasts 1 – 2 seconds.

It’s a mechanical noise, louder and slightly higher pitched than the normal idling noise. Sounds like it takes the oil 1 – 2 seconds to get around the entire engine to quieten things down.

My car is 11 months old, with 10,000km on the clock. The oil level is good – I check it regularly – I’ve had to add 3L so far in the last 10,000km to keep the level within the normal range on the dip stick.

The only other times I’ve noticed this noise upon start up in my previous cars was when I changed the oil filter and oil, after draining it completely from the sump. In those cases, it is understandable that it will take the oil a second or so to get around the engine.

But I'm now getting this every morning. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it normal?

[slam]

Thanks for the compliments.

This made me think it maybe the above. Never mind, at least its one down, "x" to go. Might be worth posting the sound (SoundCloud - Share Your Sounds).

Thanks RW1, will try to record the sound and post it soon

[slam]

Here is a video of a cold start. Wasn't that cold overnight in the garage (15C) so the noise I was referring to wasn't as obvious as it would be if it was colder.

The noise is a slightly higher pitch "whine", noticeable immediately after the engine starts, and only lasts around 1 second or so (can hear the noise when the revs are on the way up to 1,400rpm, and fades away by the time the revs drop down to 1,200rpm).

Can anyone hear it? Or does this sound normal to everyone? That noise is definitely only there during a cold start - don't hear it when starting a warm engine.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2954/plcj.mp4

Video was taken inside a garage, with the bonnet up, front windows down, and drivers door open.

[cktsi]

Hey Rw1 nice post. Before you performed this exercise did you find the engine would idle a little roughly? I am thinking of doing this technique even though Vw replaced a cam ten sioner to allegedly "solve" the issue. I still get this once in a while (definitely not as frequently as before).

Also did you get the parts from a vw specialist or oder on ebay? I am about to gave a look on ebay