Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[SilvrFoxX]

Consider me pawned... that was an excellent comeback.. i got nuthin

[WhiteJames]

The Subaru BRZ is not due out for another 6 weeks apparently, but a back to back comparison between the BRZ and Toyota FT86 Coupe is something I’d look into. Why ... to see what all the fuss is about .. and ... to compare the different suspension setups of each coupe. It has been stated that the only difference in suspension tune between the BRZ and FT86 is that the BRZ has about 10% stiffer front springs than the FT86 to give it more of that Subaru WRX feel/suspension tune.

How does this relate to a Volkswagen Golf I hear you ask. Well:

My Golf GTI with DCC on standard springs would appear to be akin to the Toyota FT86 where the front springs are relatively softer than the rear springs, with not so good low speed compression ride comfort as race-car driver Randy Pobst noted in the Motor Trend article.

My Golf GTI + DCC with addition of Driver Gear OEM Volkswagen Sport Springs may be more akin to the Subaru BRZ, where the front spring rate is increased relative to rear spring rate -v- the standard GTI springs. This improves the low speed compression – secondary ride - as noted by racer Pobst. It also creates a greater amount of understeer and driver effort on corner entry, but better traction around apex and on exit of the corners, as was the case with the BRZ -v- FT86, with FT86 loser in the rear end on corner entry (soft front springs ... a bit like adding a rear sway bar only to the Golf GTI). This is probably more important at higher speeds in the fwd Golf as you need to keep all that front end mass (about 63%) under control, hence the higher relative front spring rates of the aftermarket Driver Gear Volkswagen Sport Springs in my GTI making it feel more BRZ like.

Once a decision is made on which is the better steerer ... BRZ or FT86 ... a comparison could be made with the MK7 Golf GTI further down the track to see if Volkswagen has something that is able to come remotely close to the twins for driver appeal.

How does this relate to the Golf R ... remember that the Driver Gear Sport Springs on my GTI have brought the handling closer to that of the Golf R, with higher speed alacrity, but less adjustable at lower speeds and improved secondary low speed compression ride comfort.

Cheers.
WJ

[adzy]

The 86 has more urgent turn in and the ability to adjust the chassis more... BRZ was made 10% stiffer at the front as Subaru wanted it to understeer like the rest of their models??? **** heads!

I wouldnt compare our Golfs to a dedicated sports car like the 86 either... a true drivers car vs soft sloppy high centre of gravity Q cars.

Ps: 86 FTW!!

[SilvrFoxX]

**Sigh** don't believe the hype, which is all this is.. remember you get what you pay for

[WhiteJames]

Different horses for different courses re: FT86 –v- BRZ.

Back to back review on the open higher speed roadways around Canberra-Queanbeyan would favour the BRZ imo as you want a bit more understeer at high speeds for stability as in the case of Round One of the GTI –v- R review performed around the ACT. Round 2 review conducted around the Boat Shed of the Royal National Park, with steep winding corners would probably favour the FT86 as the softer front springs would have it pointing into corners more keenly, with the relative stiffer rear end helping point the front into the corner on. That’s provided the roadway is smooth, as in the case with most Volkswagen and Audi products, the secondary low compression ride comfort just borders on acceptable ... similar thing with the FT86 with softer front springs, the dampers have a greater effect that is not always welcomed. Apparently the Germans do this for the higher speed Autobahns that is not relevant here in AUS. Toyota has the advantage in looks and dealership coverage Australia wide and may well be the more fun of the two out on the open roadway where speed are lower and the chassis is not working to its fullest extent. The Subaru BRZ likely to be the more focused instrument in getting from A to B as quickly as possible, perhaps with less driver appeal.

In respect to the Golf GTI in the motortrend.com comparison:

Randy the racer Pobst is right in saying the GTI is an 8/10ths vehicle. Same thing re: Golf R imo. The Sirocco maybe a 9/10ths with lower and wider stance. Issue I may have with the FT86/BRZ twins is that I’m not a big fan of the boxer motor. I think it’s characterless and gruff. The lack of torque down low doesn’t help – supercharging would help, but give me a VAG inline four for refinement and character any day.

Provided Volkswagen introduce separate electronic adjustment for steering weight on a standard non-DCC Golf MK7 GTI/GTD/R ... a passively sprung non-DCC Golf with aftermarket Driver Gear Springs and Koni FSD or Ohlins DFV aftermarket suspension upgrade would be high on the list. On the other hand: the new Mark 7 Golf will have a new and improved version of Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC).

Who said you can’t compare a hot-hatch with a sports focused coupe – see this track youtube.com video review from EVO and note the final comments at the end:

2012 Subaru BRZ v Renaultsport Megane 265 Trophy track test video

Cheers.
WJ

[Candyman]

**Sigh** don't believe the hype, which is all this is.. remember you get what you pay for

Agreed

Regarding reviews, lack of all credibility when a fool compares an auto with a manual on a track. Pretty much applies to anyone using it as a reference as well

[WhiteJames]

Choice of gearbox will not affect handling/chassis tune, unless you're buying a Golf where front springs on DSG will be slightly firmer. The FT86/BRZ will have to compete with this:

New VW Golf GTI exclusive images | News | Auto Express

Cheers.
WJ

[SilvrFoxX]

So WJ, where is you head at is you were going to drop $35k on a 2nd car.. the BRZ slugbox or a 1 year old Megane..? I mean both are going to be stupid cheap 2nd hand cars, though because all the wannabe boy racers will have thrashed the F86/BRZ you would stay away from.. the Megane would be a better spend cause of the high entry cost.

[Candyman]

Choice of gearbox will not affect handling/chassis tune, unless you're buying a Golf where front springs on DSG will be slightly firmer. The FT86/BRZ will have to compete with this:

Cheers.
WJ

Track comparison of two vehicles with different transmissions (manual vs auto) is foolish to say the least (referring to the youtube video posted). Even moreso when comparing FWD to RWD. That is putting aside the price differential of the two vehicles mentioned

[Candyman]

FT86/BRZ will have to compete with this:

New VW Golf GTI exclusive images | News | Auto Express

Cheers.
WJ

No, it doesn't. Different price bracket completely.